Villa Park - Atmosphere [merged]

[nick76]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

I think you have a point here. If you go on this forum for example, gerrards a bad appointment so their are posters demanding purslow and lange should be sacked.

Its crazy 

But again most clubs are the same, you think of teams going through poor times the owners and CEO’s get hit as well.  Not only that Purslow’s hit is due to his relationship with Gerrard, which from the beginning before Gerrard started some fans were just saying he hired his mate and then after so long of being not being sacked the connection between Purslow and Gerrard became more into focus.  As for Lange people are just really questioning the recruitment strategy which is fair enough.

I have no issue with Purslow myself because for non-football matters I think he’s been fantastic I just disagreed with the Gerrard hiring but I can’t criticise non football matters.  As for Lange I don’t have a view because I don’t know how much influence he really has.

[Demitri_C]

Just now, nick76 said:

But again most clubs are the same, you think of teams going through poor times the owners and CEO’s get hit as well.  Not only that Purslow’s hit is due to his relationship with Gerrard, which from the beginning before Gerrard started some fans were just saying he hired his mate and then after so long of being not being sacked the connection between Purslow and Gerrard became more into focus.  As for Lange people are just really questioning the recruitment strategy which is fair enough.

I have no issue with Purslow myself because for non-football matters I think he’s been fantastic I just disagreed with the Gerrard hiring but I can’t criticise non football matters.  As for Lange I don’t have a view because I don’t know how much influence he really has.

Only after a consistent period of shit does that happen. When you have a ceo being called to be sacked after two managerial appointments it comes across ridiculous. It causes negativity and turmoil. Something that in most cases leads to relegation 

[El-Reacho]

I remember following the Liverpool game when we were 1-0 up with Trez’s goal until we lost in injury time on twitter (which was a mistake). The abuse the Liverpool fans were giving their own players during was horrific. Milner and Henderson in particular were targeted with  ‘just get cancer and die’ sort of stuff from accounts covered in red YNWA branding etc. I know it’s kids hiding behind user names,  but that was far more toxic than anything I ever seen from Villa fans. 

[villa4europe]

One of the other modern things I think we are toxic about and pisses me off is knowledge about the inner workings of the club

Via social media the club shows us glimpses but never enough to really understand how the club operates, we don't know who does what most of the time but we either demand to know it or make it up anyway, then throw in the ever increasing number of people working at the club and its a recipe for disaster, it doesn't help because people always want more and more, again in the new manager thread there are comments along the lines of why haven't the club said anything yet, the summer transfer threads are littered with it, like being told a little gives you an entitlement to be told the lot... And it doesn't

There's then a lot of negativity based around what fans think people at the club do, lange being a prime example, we hounded suso out, we're now half way to hounding him out too despite no real knowledge of what he does at the club because the club don't have to tell us what it is he does there on a day to day basis
 

 

[villanmac]

I actually think it takes a while for the fans at games to turn on managers. They are quite patient with that imo. In games though, the passive moaning and groaning that creeps in if we aren't creating anything early doors is bad. Also, we are a bunch of flappers who for some reason shit ourselves when we are 2-0 up and a team pulls a goal back (more so then we when we are 1-0 and a team equalises!) That kind of stuff transmits to the players.

[markavfc40]

We are certainly no worse than any other fan base. Social media has just made it easier to dish out abuse if you are that way inclined.

We aren't even as much an expectant bunch as we used to be. Six years of decline and then relegation gave us a reset. We aren't mugs though and won't stand for players not putting a shift in or pulling out of challenges. We also won't stand for managers clearly under achieving. 

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

I've always thought we had one of the worst fanbases in the country ever since I started supporting Villa. It's easy to say it's because we've been shit for a decade, but I distinctly remember thinking the fanbase was too negative even during the MON days which is the most successful period I've seen since I started going. One game that sticks out is I believe our first round in the League Cup in 09-10, and we beat a Championship team 1-0 (I think we scored really early on). Not long in to the game we started hearing moans and groans around us because we weren't winning by more, one complaint I'll always remember "We'll never do anything this season playing like this" - we got to the final that year. Even when we were doing well the crowd had the capability to turn and make things very negative at VP.

I remember a pundit once said about us (I think it was Carragher) that they always knew that to win at VP all they needed to do was not concede in the first 15 minutes, and then the crowd would turn and do the rest. I can't count the amount of times I've been to VP and the atmosphere has been great initially, but as soon as there's a mistake or a couple chances aren't taken, you feel negativity creep in, the anxiety and nerves that no doubt transfer in to the players too, and the crowd ends up going silent, so much so that it feels like you can hear every moan and groan. If I was ever Villa manager the first thing I would say (and no doubt alienate the entire fanbase ) is that I know the Villa fans can be a sour bunch that the players need to just ignore. Hell, some fans even made a joke about that during the MON years with the "We do like you, we're just fickle" banner, playing on the reverse one to O'Leary. My username even comes from the fact I got so pissed about putting up with the atmosphere for so long I intended to come on here and troll that we were going to sign Messi, that Lerner was going for broke with getting in to the CL, but I ended up not bothering after I made the account.

Personally it's why I liked Smith's reign so much, it finally felt like everyone was on the same page, and the fans didn't seem to turn as quickly as they have done in the past. In that first season back I'd put the Everton, Brighton and Leicester (EFL Cup) wins at least down to the fans and specifically the way they stuck with the team throughout. I think Grealish leaving shattered that illusion though, and whilst Smith had rope before the fans turned at the ground, I don't think we were far from the moaning-groaning atmosphere coming back under him.

Maybe it is the same with other teams, but it always felt unusually negative at VP for me. Perhaps it's just a brummy pessimism that causes the fans to be so down, the same reason I think Birmingham isn't as well regarded as it should, because brummies don't shout about how great the city is enough like Mancs, Scousers and Geordies do, but whatever it is, I've always felt as a fanbase we were overly negative and had greater capability for toxicity than other teams.

[Tom13]

2 hours ago, sne said:

No worse than any other fan base.

This. Any group of tens or hundreds of thousands of people is guaranteed to have a load of idiots.

[QldVilla]

I think some fans have to get away from the personal crap. The club appointed Gerrard, the club buys players, we don’t know what goes on on a daily basis within the club.

I believe every player and manager go to training and every match wanting to be successful.

Its ok to show our emotions I just believe a lot is misdirected at times and should never be personal.

[Talldarkandransome]

Let's not confuse keyboard warriors who spend their life trolling folks better off than they are...

Fans are entitled to an opinion but those entitlements don't include abusing human beings online.

[Adam2003]

I’ve shared on here before that a PL player has told me - rightly or wrongly - that we are seen as toxic, at Villa Park at least. That any team talk amongst opposition at VP is “make the first 20 mins difficult for them and they’ll start moaning and groaning and the team will struggle.” Usually when I post it on here a bunch of people tell me I’m wrong or all fans are the same but I guarantee amongst PL players, Villa Park is seen as a handicap not a help to our players if we aren’t playing well. 

[Adam2003]

33 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

I remember a pundit once said about us (I think it was Carragher) that they always knew that to win at VP all they needed to do was not concede in the first 15 minutes, and then the crowd would turn and do the rest

Hadn’t read this post but per my post above, I’ve been told this directly by a player - and for a much smaller team than Liverpool. I’m surprised by Carragher actually as vs Liverpool I don’t think we expect anything, and I think we get up for big games - my guy was telling me about when we play a Burnley or a Wigan and think we should beat them easily.

[AndyM3000]

I've never sat in another home end so can't really say how we compare to the rest but I think we get on the players backs a bit too quickly. If we don't start well and then there's a misplaced pass or two you get the groan around the stadium and you can sort of feel the pressure building on the team.

Right now I reckon if Matty Cash misplaces a few passes, nothing happens. If McGinn does it the fans would react differently, but a lot of that is on the manager then who persistently starts an underperforming player. I remember years ago we had a chant that involved the words "Even Heskey scored", nice to boost his confidence by mocking the guy.

There's some really contrasting views on players and tactics in the stands, you'll have the same person shouting at the defence to boot the ball long and stop messing about with it at the back and then 5 minutes later wondering why we can't keep hold of the ball.

It didn't surprise me one bit that we performed better during the periods where we had no fans in the stadium. 

[Demitri_C]

Ive sat in various home ends. Arsenal, spurs chelsea and utd as a aload of may mates are ST holders at those clubs.

I have to say utd fans were actually the less toxic out if the lot followed by arsenal.

Chelsea fans were the worst. Their fans are truly awful hooligans (not all but times ive been there and the toxicity with little kids right there awful)

But i think with VP the element of pressure from the fans does take a toll. Scared to make errors and things like that 

[HKP90]

6 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Hadn’t read this post but per my post above, I’ve been told this directly by a player - and for a much smaller team than Liverpool. I’m surprised by Carragher actually as vs Liverpool I don’t think we expect anything, and I think we get up for big games - my guy was telling me about when we play a Burnley or a Wigan and think we should beat them easily.

You are talking about two independent variables here. Toxicity- how fans respond to adversity, and Expectation- what the fans expect us to achieve. I don't think we are more toxic necessarily than other fans, but I do think that our expectations are (rightly or wrongly, realistically or otherwise) higher than most. Ultimately as long as achievements fall short of expectations, there will be discontent.

It's why Spurs  Arsenal or Man U fans go mad and demand a sacking when they finish 7th, while we would kill for that right now, just like Blackburn or Sheffield Wednesday would kill to be where we are.

The expectations of these teams will (at the moment) be lower than ours, but they too will have a toxicity threshold. It's all just human nature. 

[Adam2003]

20 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

You are talking about two independent variables here. Toxicity- how fans respond to adversity, and Expectation- what the fans expect us to achieve. I don't think we are more toxic necessarily than other fans, but I do think that our expectations are (rightly or wrongly, realistically or otherwise) higher than most. Ultimately as long as achievements fall short of expectations, there will be discontent.

It's why Spurs  Arsenal or Man U fans go mad and demand a sacking when they finish 7th, while we would kill for that right now, just like Blackburn or Sheffield Wednesday would kill to be where we are.

The expectations of these teams will (at the moment) be lower than ours, but they too will have a toxicity threshold. It's all just human nature. 

Yes that’s fair. Maybe the point is our expectations are often seen to exceed reality. I’ve known us winning trophies and challenging for titles and we still wanted more (which is fine when things are good but a challenge when we are struggling). 

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

 

There's then a lot of negativity based around what fans think people at the club do, lange being a prime example, we hounded suso out, we're now half way to hounding him out too despite no real knowledge of what he does at the club because the club don't have to tell us what it is he does there on a day to day basis
 

 

This post is bang on, especially this bit.

In the last few days, we've seen Purslow cast as the arrogant, nepotistic puppetmaster, gambling our future, Lange as the weak pushover doing nothing, and Wes as the firm impulsive owner taking the matter in hand that we can all trust.

What do we know about who made which decisions? **** all. It's lunacy. Some of our posters should be writing for the soaps. 

[HKP90]

Just now, Adam2003 said:

Yes that’s fair. Maybe the point is our expectations are often seen to exceed reality. I’ve known us winning trophies and challenging for titles and we still wanted more (which is fine when things are good but a challenge when we are struggling). 

As I hinted at, whether or not you think our expectations are unreasonable (and I think certainly they have been at times) is up for debate. 

There was mention of MON earlier, and that's  a great case in point. I remember what finally turned things against MON, it was the weakened team we fielded in the Europa. Just think of that now. We were in frigging Europe!

Now at the time my feelings were, I don't mind admitting, that Europe was the point of what we were doing. We'd been working toward it for years, and then we play a weakened side away and get beat, with fans travelling for hours and spending loads of money to get there. 

That was the turning point for me and lots of others  I'm sure....like what is the point of aiming for Europe just to piss it away. In retrospect this was probably based on unrealistic expectation, and my god would we not like to be there now. 

Point is, no matter where we are we'll always want more. It's a depressing reality that we will ultimately never be happy, whether we support Plymouth, Norwich, or PSG.

[Xela]

We're known by other fans to be fickle/demanding/unrealistic, so I do think there is something in it. Maybe not 'toxic' but certainly our expectations are higher. We sill class ourselves as a giant in the game, even though we've won the league once in over 100 years.

Its not helped by previous/current owners like Lerner/Xia/NSWE talking about Europe and Champions League. I know why they do it, but the reality is that is is almost impossible to achieve at the moment. It raises expectations that can't be matched. 

Plus, add in that people are more demanding nowadays in the instant gratification social media world and its a recipe for disaster. Sir Alex wouldn't have had 4 or 5 years to get Man Utd decent nowadays, he'd have been sacked within 12 months. I guess the huge amount of money in the game today necessitates that. 

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

Hadn’t read this post but per my post above, I’ve been told this directly by a player - and for a much smaller team than Liverpool. I’m surprised by Carragher actually as vs Liverpool I don’t think we expect anything, and I think we get up for big games - my guy was telling me about when we play a Burnley or a Wigan and think we should beat them easily.

To be fair, I've always attributed it to Carragher but was never 100% about it, it could well be something I read on here that my brain has then inexplicably linked to him.