New Manager...

[KenjiOgiwara]

On 10/07/2020 at 12:34, A'Villan said:

Benfica. Historically won more titles, recently won more titles, bigger crowds. Domestically it's Benfica,

I suppose Porto can boast two European titles in the last two decades, but Benfica has made two finals as well.

I'm no longer disagreeing with you, because as you've brought to my attention, I don't really have much basis for it as I don't follow said leagues.

Still, I'm trying to understand why you believe Ligue 1 is below standard, Neymar and Mbappe play in the league. You've got Fabregas playing at a mid-table Monaco.

I mean Terry was a notable acquisition for a championship side, and he was what, age 37? The only reason he came was to the division was to help rescue a PL mainstay.

When I was watching the Portugese teams Benfica had player like Matic, Gaitin, Witsel, Garay, Luisao, Cardozo, Lima and Porto had Falcao, Hulk, Varela, Moutinho, Guarin, Mangala, Otamendi, Cristian and James Rodriguez. Like the championship just doesn't offer that sort of talent, if so very few and far between, a few players throughout the league, not squads.

As for Norwegian's heading there, good for them, there's about a half dozen Norwegian's in the Championship too.

The last 30 years Porto has 17 or 18 league titles (including this years). Benfica has 8.Benfica might historically be a bigger club, but that's like saying we're the big team in England. Or Sunderland. History is history. Now Benfica has had a minor change of fortunes the last 5 years, but it doesn't change the fact that Porto is the top dog, and has been for quite a while.

And that's before we talk European football.

Neymar and Mbappe, Fabregas are irrelevant. I'm not sure you are getting the point. Single star players for a few clubs does not make it a good league. You will always have some few exceptional players in these leagues, but the overall quality is absolute shite. And that's where the championship takes the lead in terms of quality. The championship might not have Neymar or some CL players here and there, but the defending, tempo, figth and overall play is far more competitive than anything you see in Holland or Portugal. By some distance. By having a shite league where the few top teams end up in the CL you will always have some good players in these teams. 

The Norwegians heading to the championship are generally accepted to be much better players than those heading to France. Stefan Johansen is generally accepted to be one of our better CMs. Those heading to France, IF successful end up in the championship by large. Or the PL. One of our better fullbacks Meling just went to Nimes. Which is the equivalent of Swansea in a worse league. 

By using your own metric if a league is good or not, i.e. if it has big teams and big names. Stefan Johansen went to Celtic. Played there for years. Then ended up in the championship. Celtic is a huge club. It doesn't change the fact that the championship is better quality than the SPL. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[thabucks]

14 hours ago, Villan4Life said:

Marco Rose should be in the poll of Manager's to look at!

He is my first choice and mentioned him a few weeks ago. Him or Jesse Marsch would be my choice. If/ when we go down the makes it so much harder to attract the right calibre of manager so is it better the devil you know? 

[Laughable Chimp]

Thing with Rodgers is if you swapped their first half of the season form with the second half you wouldn't see a sniff of anyone complaining. Fans' memories are very short I guess.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Laughable Chimp

[A'Villan]

16 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

The last 30 years Porto has 17 or 18 league titles (including this years). Benfica has 8.Benfica might historically be a bigger club, but that's like saying we're the big team in England. Or Sunderland. History is history. Now Benfica has had a minor change of fortunes the last 5 years, but it doesn't change the fact that Porto is the top dog, and has been for quite a while.

And that's before we talk European football.

Neymar and Mbappe, Fabregas are irrelevant. I'm not sure you are getting the point. Single star players for a few clubs does not make it a good league. You will always have some few exceptional players in these leagues, but the overall quality is absolute shite. And that's where the championship takes the lead in terms of quality. The championship might not have Neymar or some CL players here and there, but the defending, tempo, figth and overall play is far more competitive than anything you see in Holland or Portugal. By some distance. By having a shite league where the few top teams end up in the CL you will always have some good players in these teams. 

The Norwegians heading to the championship are generally accepted to be much better players than those heading to France. Stefan Johansen is generally accepted to be one of our better CMs. Those heading to France, IF successful end up in the championship by large. Or the PL. One of our better fullbacks Meling just went to Nimes. Which is the equivalent of Swansea in a worse league. 

By using your own metric if a league is good or not, i.e. if it has big teams and big names. Stefan Johansen went to Celtic. Played there for years. Then ended up in the championship. Celtic is a huge club. It doesn't change the fact that the championship is better quality than the SPL. 

I suppose it's like arguing who's the top dog of Barcelona and Real, almost identical for totals in history and the last 30 years, with Real having just under 10 more titles overall historically but with Barcelona edging the battle over the last 30 years, with 16 titles in that time.

When you add European football into the mix it's not really any different from comparing the two domestically. You can elaborate on that topic if you want, I've said my bit there.

I think I've exhausted my ability to engage the conversation as I don't watch anywhere near enough of the championship, eredivisie or premeira liga to know.

I will say that I do not believe I am missing the point, I think I probably did a poor job of illustrating mine. Take Monaco for example, in 5 of the last 7 years have finished top 3, they have also been French champions in that time, but they have also been 2 points and 1 position from relegation, and this season finished mid-table. They have finished in the QF and SF of the Champions League in the last 5 years to back up their domestic record. Yet the level of competition in Ligue 1 was enough to have them plummet to 17th in the space of a year, having players of the ability of Falcao and Fabregas. You're telling me the championship is a good enough standard whereby a team like Monaco is a whisker from relegation? I don't believe that. And I've seen for myself over a few seasons what the top Championship teams can bring, and what the lowest can.

We've gone a bit off-topic though.

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by A'Villan

[KenjiOgiwara]

Monaco has always struggled when they redevelop their squads. But like I said from the start the French league is debateable, but the Eredivisie and Primeira is not. 

Either way no worries, we can leave it there. 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[useless]

What might complicate things is that once this season is over there's only going to be about seven weeks until the new season begins. That's seven weeks to bring in a new Director of Football, a manager, at least half a new team, and for the new manager to coach the players to his vision, and for a pre-season to take place.

[Reivax_Villa]

Director of football is not going to have enough time to critically assess the squad and management, unless we are in talks with one already and this is being done behind the scenes.

[thabucks]

Domenico Tedesco initially did very well at schalke could be a coach worth looking at. Shame Roger Schmidt is going to PSV and marsch and Rose are probs unobtainable. Starting to feel it might be best to stick with the devil you know in many aspects as I cannot see any worthy UK candidates and big risk going foreign. IF we were to replace Suso with Emelano would he have been at Chelsea when Jokanovic was there ? 

Edited July 19, 2020 by thabucks

[villalad21]

I agree with @Sulberto21

Pay Marcelo Gallardo what he wants. The next big coach

[thabucks]

7 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I agree with @Sulberto21

Pay Marcelo Gallardo what he wants. The next big coach

A disciple of Bielsa!

[mykeyb]

On 17/07/2020 at 09:10, Reivax_Villa said:

Director of football is not going to have enough time to critically assess the squad and management, unless we are in talks with one already and this is being done behind the scenes.

If we are looking to appoint one you would hope that's the target has been identified and they already have a good knowledge of the squad.

[DaveAV1]

On 17/07/2020 at 09:10, Reivax_Villa said:

Director of football is not going to have enough time to critically assess the squad and management, unless we are in talks with one already and this is being done behind the scenes.

I’d like to think that’s what’s happening. Plus you’d think that even an outsider who is a professional DOF or in a role that heavily involves him in football at the top level, would have kept at least reasonably educated eye on all the teams in the PL  Especially those that could conceivably be improved by a man of his skills. Let’s face it us bunch of amateurs all think we know better, so hopefully anyone we’re looking at would at least have that much belief in himself. 

[Demitri_C]

On 10/07/2020 at 01:15, Mantis said:

There's no guarantee it'd even work out for us. Remember how Lambert did a fantastic job at Norwich? Or how Smith did a decent job with Walsall/Brentford? Too often we just go for relatively safe overachieving domestic managers and it never works out.

We cant compare one bad experience in lambert to every manager out there.

Id argue dyche has done more than lambert ever could. Its like comparing Armani to kappa.

Id take dyche in a heart beat

[Reivax_Villa]

45 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

If we are looking to appoint one you would hope that's the target has been identified and they already have a good knowledge of the squad.

This is the hope.

Questions to Purslow if that is not the case.

[Reivax_Villa]

33 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’d like to think that’s what’s happening. Plus you’d think that even an outsider who is a professional DOF or in a role that heavily involves him in football at the top level, would have kept at least reasonably educated eye on all the teams in the PL  Especially those that could conceivably be improved by a man of his skills. Let’s face it us bunch of amateurs all think we know better, so hopefully anyone we’re looking at would at least have that much belief in himself. 

I agree,  the same way scouts still identify players whilst unemployed.

[Fairy In Boots]

If it’s true Pearson is off I know who I’d want to rebuild us

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Just now, Fairy In Boots said:

If it’s true Pearson is off I know who I’d want to rebuild us

Dwight Yorke?

[Zatman]

7 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

If it’s true Pearson is off I know who I’d want to rebuild us

Who?

[Johnnyp]

3 hours ago, thabucks said:

Domenico Tedesco initially did very well at schalke could be a coach worth looking at. Shame Roger Schmidt is going to PSV and marsch and Rose are probs unobtainable. Starting to feel it might be best to stick with the devil you know in many aspects as I cannot see any worthy UK candidates and big risk going foreign. IF we were to replace Suso with Emelano would he have been at Chelsea when Jokanovic was there ? 

Marsch probably is gettable. I don't think he's gonna get much credit in the bank winning trophies with RB Salzburg in a one horse league with their wealth, players etc. Just iffy with American managers, call it the snob in me. Rose ? Not a hope of getting him. Leeds are proof of the importance of acquiring a world class coach.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Johnnyp
.

[ramshackler]

New manager thread and the majority of VillaTalk voting for Pochettino . 

Never change VT, never change