Summer Transfers Window 2020

[OLDVILLAIN]

Good morning everyone..any one else looking forward to another day of disapointment in all things villa?

[Rolta]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

my unsubstantiated opinion of scattergun/scatter shot what ever.....is journalists breed off other snippets of rumour and just splurge it.....if they put enough out, they are likely to get a few right.....but hey ho, I am not expert on th sporting press.

This is what happens. Two scenarios. They know nothing so they make things up. Then the news breaks by someone who actually knows something (in our case last year, a Belgian journalist, or even more random—Luiz came from some weird tweet I think), then the journalist starts reporting that news. They don't know any better than you or I in this scenario, but they can easily construct a narrative to fit and make it seem that they know what's going on (oh the transfer hasn't gone through yet—yes there is a problem with another club coming in, or there are no agreements on the money) It's all a lie, and they made everything up, especially for that whole first period, and then they made up their own narrative to fit the few facts everyone knows for the second part of the rumour.

Or, the journalist makes things up for ages before one of his contacts finally gives him an actual true snippet, and then they report that. But that also doesn't mean that they were doing anything other than making things up for that whole first period.

The 'no smoke without fire' thing is not true in football news (and other news, but let's not get into that).

Football pages are about 8 or so pages long every day and they have to be filled one way or another.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Rolta

[HeyAnty]

We should be in for Kyle Walker-Peters. Excellent player, has prem experience, is young and would be cheap at around 12-15m

[Rolta]

12 minutes ago, hippo said:

I m actually taking it as a good sign.

When you paying £11m for the likes of Nakamba - there isn't likely to be much competition and the player must think all his birthdays have come at once.  Better players are likley to have multiple offers and the club multiple bids to consider.

I don't understand. So it's the same as ever—good players are more expensive because there's a bidding war and we have less chance of getting them because there is more competition (possibly from clubs that weren't almost relegated, which are therefore possibly more attractive)? So we still end up with signings like last year because that's the only way we can get them.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Rolta

[sne]

4 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

We should be in for Kyle Walker-Peters. Excellent player, has prem experience, is young and would be cheap at around 12-15m

Rumor is he's going back to Southampton as part of the Höjbjerg deal if there is one.

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, Delphouneso said:

See my post above in regard to Danny Ings. I get the point you're trying to make, but surely if these players are that desperate to play first team football they'll be on the phone to us and other clubs anyway? And I actually think it shows more ambition that rather than just accept cast offs from above we're trying to compete with the top clubs for these players' signatures before they move.

Well they can't really do that, can they.....but they can tip their agent the wink.

cast offs, rejects.....are not what I had in mind.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Rolta said:

I don't understand. So it's the same as ever—good players are more expensive because there's a bidding war and we have less chance of getting them because there is more competition (possibly from clubs that weren't almost relegated, which are therefore possibly more attractive)? So we still end up with signings like last year because that's the only way we can get them.

well if we keep doing the same things, you know the consequences.

We can be forgiven for looking at alternatives, when we have a record of a poor signings ratio  in the last 10years

Edited August 6, 2020 by TRO

[omariqy]

My view re signing the top teams squad fillers is that it just doesn't work. Firstly, Everton and West Ham have done the same for years and it just hasn't worked. These players don't tend to have the desire to succeed. Secondly, the wages are going to be astronomical and it just won't work in our current wage structure. Maybe if we have been in the league for a few years. I would love Origi, Shaqiri, Milner, Stones, Smalling, Rose etc but they would all cost a lot of money and more importantly their wages would be in line with what we might pay Jack moving forward.

[Nicho]

Just one signing please so we can start predicting the next position.

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, Rolta said:

This is what happens. Two scenarios. They know nothing so they make things up. Then the news breaks by someone who actually knows something (in our case last year, a Belgian journalist, or even more random—Luiz came from some weird tweet I think), then the journalist starts reporting that news. They don't know any better than you or I in this scenario, but they can easily construct a narrative to fit and make it seem that they know what's going on (oh the transfer hasn't gone through yet—yes there is a problem with another club coming in, or there are no agreements on the money) It's all a lie, and they made everything up, especially for that whole first period, and then they made up their own narrative to fit the few facts everyone knows for the second part of the rumour.

Or, the journalist makes things up for ages before one of his contacts finally gives him an actual true snippet, and then they report that. But that also doesn't mean that they were doing anything other than making things up for that whole first period.

The 'no smoke without fire' thing is not true in football news (and other news, but let's not get into that).

Football pages are about 8 or so pages long every day and they have to be filled one way or another.

cheers for that....I have no reason to doubt you.

[Mjvilla]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

Totally

Both managers appreciated the value of workrate and industry.....The problem is John when you mention it, it gets manipulated in to " park the bus" football.

Not many seem to reference the work and industry of Liverpool or Man City, its camouflaged by technical ability.

But yes John they both would......but then you get the old chesnut from some quarters....." football has changed, you are a dinosaur" ....not to the point where it can be ignored it hasn't.

I don't think many think of work rate as park the bus football. Id like to see a quote where this has been suggested. It's interpretation again here. There's no manipulation.

All of this board has said how much Luiz has improved and numerous times I've seen it mentioned how hard he works. Does this count? I think trez has been pinpointed as someone who should start over el ghazi, because he works harder. Does this count? Mcginn is loved, because his work rate. Does this count? I would say all of those work hard without being dubbed 'park the bus' footballers.

The point being, Smith learnt the hard this year. But the main point is, he learnt. He tried to combine technical ability alongside industry and I think we will get better at this. 

I think, any new signings made, will have a nod towards workrate and personality without doubt. It doesn't have to be about only industry and work rate, you can have both too. Like you say about those teams that do it best. 

[sne]

The City, Plop, Barca and so on tactic rests on their players winning the ball back as early and as high up the pitch as possible. The exact opposite to park the buss. It's the attackers and wide forwards that do the bulk of their defending.

[StefanAVFC]

7 minutes ago, omariqy said:

My view re signing the top teams squad fillers is that it just doesn't work. Firstly, Everton and West Ham have done the same for years and it just hasn't worked. These players don't tend to have the desire to succeed. Secondly, the wages are going to be astronomical and it just won't work in our current wage structure. Maybe if we have been in the league for a few years. I would love Origi, Shaqiri, Milner, Stones, Smalling, Rose etc but they would all cost a lot of money and more importantly their wages would be in line with what we might pay Jack moving forward.

Exactly, and the only example of one working recently is Ings.

Any other examples of fringe players at top teams being signed by a team at our level, and successful?

Certainly more examples of 'championship players' stepping up than the above tbh.

[Okonokos]

9 hours ago, GENTLEMAN said:

Jhon Córdoba anybody?

https://bulinews.com/news/5686/report-jhon-cordoba-has-rejected-kölns-first-contract-offer

Skillet to succeed in the premier league. Out of contract next summer.

No thanks. Not very good.

[Silent_Bob]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

No one is proposing Rejects, from Top Teams.....that is an interpretation of a falsehood.

The players being suggested are fringe players, who are frustrated at a lack of game time, trying to push out world class players.

These same players are in and around an environment of serial winners, with the spin off of listening to world class managers and their strategies for success.

They are trusted to play when called up on in highly motivated teams that breed intensity and drive and a thirst to win.

They are anything but Rejects.....thats a poor interpretation.

was Danny Ings a reject?

I hope we don't sign rejects from top teams, like we have done before. Ireland, Lescott, Richards and so on. I didn't say that was a proposal from you or anyone else.

If we buy a young fringe players we are doing what I hope, buying players on their way up. Which means I don't care that much where they come from. If it's from Liverpool reserves, Brentford, Norwich, Sunderland, the Swiss league or whereever.

Origi though is a player I hope we avoid. Not good enough to be a regular at Liverpool, but would still cost quite a lot. And coming here for the wrong reason, not good enough to play for Liverpool and on his way down. Villa wouldn't be a stepping stone for him to go back into the top teams. Rather a stepping stone on his way back to Belgium. If he, or similar players, come here it's not because they have a thirst to win. Then they would stay and fight for their place.

 

 

 

[blunther]

Not many people talking about keepers. We need a keeper. I know we have dozens but we need a good one. Otherwise we start the season with Nyland and a hope and a prayer that the injury hasn't affected Heaton in any way. and if Heaton struggles on his return, we have Nyland and an unproven Steer to see us through to January when we'll have to panic buy.

 

Striker, Winger, Keeper. Those are absolute musts for me. Anything else is a bonus.

[Delphinho123]

Fail

Edited August 6, 2020 by Delphinho123

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, omariqy said:

My view re signing the top teams squad fillers is that it just doesn't work. Firstly, Everton and West Ham have done the same for years and it just hasn't worked. These players don't tend to have the desire to succeed. Secondly, the wages are going to be astronomical and it just won't work in our current wage structure. Maybe if we have been in the league for a few years. I would love Origi, Shaqiri, Milner, Stones, Smalling, Rose etc but they would all cost a lot of money and more importantly their wages would be in line with what we might pay Jack moving forward.

so What you are saying I think is.......Those high flying teams are happy to keep them.....Hmmmmmmm

I would tend to suspect that unless those squad fillers can offer value.....highly succesful teams, would be going after the suggested players we go after, relegated teams or highly rated championship players or speculated players from foreign leagues.

I don't think, there are any hard and fast rules here.....but I would be highly sceptical if top teams hung on to Squad fillers, rejects or cast offs for no reason other than they feel they can add value to their project if needed.

If my point is suspect.....why don't the top teams go after our suggested targets( from the championship) and dump their cast offs, rejects or squad fillers?......They are in the pound seats to dictate pulling power, why not beat us to it.

[dubbs]

Must say I don't feel confident if Nyland plays at the start of next season.  Need Heaton back ASAP. 

[hippo]

26 minutes ago, Rolta said:

I don't understand. So it's the same as ever—good players are more expensive because there's a bidding war and we have less chance of getting them because there is more competition (possibly from clubs that weren't almost relegated, which are therefore possibly more attractive)? So we still end up with signings like last year because that's the only way we can get them.

What don't you understand - from the above you appear to have understood perfectly.

Apart from the last bit - its not a given that we will end up with 2020/21 versions of Nkamba, Guilbert, Trez  etc - 

signing poor players is easy - good ones a bit more challenging.