Summer Transfers Window 2020

[Delphinho123]

Aston Villa are leading the race to sign Saïd Benrahma and Ollie Watkins. [@TomBarclay_] #avfc

(No idea how to put Tweet into a post)
FWIW, Tom Barclay is one of the better reporters at The Sun. Can't we just throw Henry in there too and give them 50m for the lot?

 

[Herman22]

Here one to consider, no link, no speculation whatsoever, Felipe Anderson from West Ham. 

Was top class first season under Peligrinni but doesn't seem to be getting much of a chance under Moyes. WAs signed for 30mil +. If he's not wanted at West Ham we could surely pick him up for 15-20mil?

Just a thought! 

[Mjvilla]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

so What you are saying I think is.......Those high flying teams are happy to keep them.....Hmmmmmmm

I would tend to suspect that unless those squad fillers can offer value.....highly succesful teams, would be going after the suggested players we go after, relegated teams or highly rated championship players or speculated players from foreign leagues.

I don't think, there are any hard and fast rules here.....but I would be highly sceptical if top teams hung on to Squad fillers, rejects or cast offs for no reason other than they feel they can add value to their project if needed.

If my point is suspect.....why don't the top teams go after our suggested targets( from the championship) and dump their cast offs, rejects or squad fillers?......They are in the pound seats to dictate pulling power, why not beat us to it.

My point is:

The ones that are good enough to come and start for us at these clubs are the ones good enough to be a squad player at the top sides. They will cost alot with high wages. The rejects aren't good enough. And, even then, it's still a gamble if they have the correct desire once they take the drop.

We have to take from below, in the main, to garner any value for money on transfers and wages. 

[omariqy]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

so What you are saying I think is.......Those high flying teams are happy to keep them.....Hmmmmmmm

I would tend to suspect that unless those squad fillers can offer value.....highly succesful teams, would be going after the suggested players we go after, relegated teams or highly rated championship players or speculated players from foreign leagues.

I don't think, there are any hard and fast rules here.....but I would be highly sceptical if top teams hung on to Squad fillers, rejects or cast offs for no reason other than they feel they can add value to their project if needed.

If my point is suspect.....why don't the top teams go after our suggested targets( from the championship) and dump their cast offs, rejects or squad fillers?......They are in the pound seats to dictate pulling power, why not beat us to it.

I am not saying that. I am saying they want a certain level of remuneration for those players. They will need those fees so they can then go on and buy their targets. They know they will have 2 or 3 clubs interested in their players. Usually the same suspects - Everton, Crystal Palace and West Ham. These teams are stuck. Stuck playing turgid football, spending big money and not progressing. I am not saying buy no players from these teams but you need a good mix otherwise you will never progress.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I don't think many think of work rate as park the bus football. Id like to see a quote where this has been suggested. It's interpretation again here. There's no manipulation.

All of this board has said how much Luiz has improved and numerous times I've seen it mentioned how hard he works. Does this count? I think trez has been pinpointed as someone who should start over el ghazi, because he works harder. Does this count? Mcginn is loved, because his work rate. Does this count? I would say all of those work hard without being dubbed 'park the bus' footballers.

The point being, Smith learnt the hard this year. But the main point is, he learnt. He tried to combine technical ability alongside industry and I think we will get better at this. 

I think, any new signings made, will have a nod towards workrate and personality without doubt. It doesn't have to be about only industry and work rate, you can have both too. Like you say about those teams that do it best. 

Fine then I am reassured.

Luiz has been a revelation since Lockdown, Trez has been hit a miss, more hit in the last 5 games.....McGinn is a shadow of himself since his injury, to be expected, I guess.

I am encouraged by your reference

Thats my very point, it needs both.

[Rolta]

7 minutes ago, hippo said:

What don't you understand - from the above you appear to have understood perfectly.

Apart from the last bit - its not a given that we will end up with 2020/21 versions of Nkamba, Guilbert, Trez  etc - 

signing poor players is easy - good ones a bit more challenging.

 

I guess I don't understand what's positive about any of it for us. The good players are always more expensive because of bidding wars, and they always have more choice. So why would they choose us? Presumably this more or less happens every year—and why would people choose us? Inevitably then, we end up with players lower on our wish list, like all those you mentioned.

Slightly moving on, I think we're still in a tough position at the moment. Getting who we want is going to be difficult. We're not an established prem team yet, so we're still going to be somewhat of a risk to potential signings. It'll put people off to a degree. Logically, we pretty much have to sign either castoffs from teams above us, players from riskier leagues, or players from the Championship (and below). Having said that, here's hoping they pull a rabbit out of the hat.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Rolta

[Killeen30]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

We shouldn't be signing the rejects from the top teams. It has been a strategy for Everton and West Ham in recent times with no success

God was rejected/let go by a top team. There is no set rule in transfers. 

[StefanAVFC]

Because I am a sad bastard, I went through the squads of the top 6, looking at rej-, sorry fringe players and compiled a list below.

How many of these would we want? And more importantly, how many would actually come??

Plop
Divock Origi
Xherdan Shaqiri
Harry Wilson

Citeh
Oleksandr Zinchenko
Angelino
Nicolás Otamendi
Eric García
Jon Stones

United
Andreas Pereira
Jesse Lingard
Phil Jones
Juan Mata
Chris Smalling
Marcos Rojo
Sergio Romero
Timothy Fosu-Mensah
Axel Tuanzebe

Chelsea
Ross Barkley
Tammy Abraham
Michy Batshuayi
Fikayo Tomori
Victor Moses
Lucas Piazon
Ethan Ampadu
Danny Drinkwater
Marco van Ginkel
Kenedy

Leicester
Wes Morgan
Demarai Gray
Marc Albrighton
Islam Slimani
Kelechi Iheanacho
Daniel Amartey
Adrien Silva
Matty James
Rachid Ghezzal

Spurs
Danny Rose 
Kyle Walker-Peters
Erik Lamela
Eric Dier
Juan Foyth
Cameron Carter-Vickers

I can't see many on this list who fit both criteria above (bolded ones I think fit), also as others have said, buying these fringe players hasn't worked well for the likes of Everton, Palace or West Ham recently. And even if we look at the bolded, how much will they cost?

Looking at Championship to PL, we have: (and this is a list combined from my memory recently and last year's transfer window)

Maddison
Bowen
Konsa
Mepham
Kelly
Sessegnon
Billing
Jack Clarke
Freeman
Robinson
Pieters
Lowton
Westwood
Daniel James
Rodriguez
Mooy
Wood

Obviously some misses there, but mostly solid PL players. As much as I think just shopping in the championship is not a recipe for success, it is incredibly foolish to discount it, or even be skeptical really. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by StefanAVFC

[OLDVILLAIN]

2 minutes ago, Killeen30 said:

God was rejected/let go by a top team. There is no set rule in transfers. 

Pauls knees where nearly done when he joined us..He played through the pain barrier every time he played for us.Villa legend

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, omariqy said:

I am not saying that. I am saying they want a certain level of remuneration for those players. They will need those fees so they can then go on and buy their targets. They know they will have 2 or 3 clubs interested in their players. Usually the same suspects - Everton, Crystal Palace and West Ham. These teams are stuck. Stuck playing turgid football, spending big money and not progressing. I am not saying buy no players from these teams but you need a good mix otherwise you will never progress.

I totally agree, you need a mix....I have said ,no hard and fast rule.

I guess to a degree, I have been influenced by how Ron Saunders built his teams, for my sins.

Cropley- Arsenal

Rimmer-Arsenal

Swain-Chelsea

Withe -Newcastle 

and then on to Dean Saunders- Liverpool.....Paul McGrath-Man Utd......Derek Mountfield-Everton.

all fringe players at their respective clubs.

Sure he had some great kids coming through, so I guess that helped.

I just think its an area, we should be more mindful of.

Edited August 6, 2020 by TRO

[Killeen30]

Just now, OLDVILLAIN said:

Pauls knees where nearly done when he joined us..He played through the pain barrier every time he played for us.Villa legend

Yes and that is why he was rejected/let go by United for whatever reason. What I am saying is just because a player from a ‘top club’ is let go doesn’t always mean they won’t do a fine job for Aston Villa.

of course God was a legend. Only the best.

[Teale's 'tache]

Personally I think we should (and will) be looking at all markets, trying to get the best value and quality possible. Just because we've been 'linked' with a few championship players doesn't mean we'll be doing all our shopping there.

With regards to picking players from further up the league #1 issue is they are difficult to scout because they hardly play, unless it's at u23 level which is no good, you've no idea if they are match fit or general fitness levels, they will be on a decent whack, more than most of our squad which could create issues. It's a high risk policy and so rarely works. At least shopping below, the player will be playing regularly, be expecting less in wages and likely hungrier to succeed than those who feel they've just taken a step down.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just a very difficult/risky market to be shopping in. We've been stung by it many times so I'm not surprised we are especially wary of it.

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, Rolta said:

I guess I don't understand what's positive about any of it for us. The good players are always more expensive because of bidding wars, and they always have more choice. So why would they choose us? Presumably this more or less happens every year—and why would people choose us? Inevitably then, we end up with players lower on our wish list, like all those you mentioned.

Slightly moving on, I think we're still in a tough position at the moment. Getting who we want is going to be difficult. We're not an established prem team yet, so we're still going to be somewhat of a risk to potential signings. It'll put people off to a degree. Logically, we pretty much have to sign either castoffs from teams above us, players from riskier leagues, or players from the Championship (and below). Having said that, here's hoping they pull a rabbit out of the hat.

 

Yup thats pretty much where we are. We can't sign proven players - there has to be a bit of a risk - hopefully we don't have to gamble quite as much this year. I actually Benrahma and Ollie Watkins are our plan B - with the likes of ineacho, origi, that guy from Celtic higher up the list.

[Mjvilla]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Because I am a sad bastard, I went through the squads of the top 6, looking at rej-, sorry fringe players and compiled a list below.

How many of these would we want? And more importantly, how many would actually come??

Plop
Divock Origi
Xherdan Shaqiri
Harry Wilson

Citeh
Oleksandr Zinchenko
Angelino
Nicolás Otamendi
Eric García
Jon Stones

United
Andreas Pereira
Jesse Lingard
Phil Jones
Juan Mata
Chris Smalling
Marcos Rojo
Sergio Romero
Timothy Fosu-Mensah
Axel Tuanzebe

Chelsea
Ross Barkley
Tammy Abraham
Michy Batshuayi
Fikayo Tomori
Victor Moses
Lucas Piazon
Ethan Ampadu
Danny Drinkwater
Marco van Ginkel
Kenedy

Leicester
Wes Morgan
Demarai Gray
Marc Albrighton
Islam Slimani
Kelechi Iheanacho
Daniel Amartey
Adrien Silva
Matty James
Rachid Ghezzal

Spurs
Danny Rose 
Kyle Walker-Peters
Erik Lamela
Eric Dier
Juan Foyth
Cameron Carter-Vickers

I can't see many on this list who fit both criteria above (bolded ones I think fit), also as others have said, buying these fringe players hasn't worked well for the likes of Everton, Palace or West Ham recently. And even if we look at the bolded, how much will they cost?

Looking at Championship to PL, we have: (and this is a list combined from my memory recently and last year's transfer window)

Maddison
Bowen
Konsa
Mepham
Kelly
Sessegnon
Billing
Jack Clarke
Freeman
Robinson
Pieters
Lowton
Westwood
Daniel James
Rodriguez
Mooy
Wood

Obviously some misses there, but mostly solid PL players. As much as I think just shopping in the championship is not a recipe for success, it is incredibly foolish to discount it, or even be skeptical really. 

Really is a shit list of players for fringe players at top sides. Huge wages and big fees on very average players looking through that lot.

Tammy, perhaps tomori. Then what? Really don't like the idea of shopping at that store.

[Killeen30]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

Yup thats pretty much where we are. We can't sign proven players - there has to be a bit of a risk - hopefully we don't have to gamble quite as much this year. I actually Benrahma and Ollie Watkins are our plan B - with the likes of ineacho, origi, that guy from Celtic higher up the list.

Manchester United signed Sanchez from Arsenal thinking he’d be great. Always risk involved unless your signing a Messi or Ronaldo type player. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Tom Heaton hasn't done so bad

I agree though Evans is probably the exception as he was a senior player at United and has pushed on after leaving, Smalling might be another but players who got a big deal and do **** all like Barkley, Stones etc are not worth touching 

Bit harsh to say Stones and Barkley have done **** all. Stones has 85 appearances and Barkley 50. Yes neither of them proved to be good enough for Man City and Chelsea but I think they would be very good players for us.  

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, Killeen30 said:

God was rejected/let go by a top team. There is no set rule in transfers. 

Different era though. He was let go because of his off field issues and not sitting on a bench all season while getting 60-80k a week and going to semi retirement. 

Lingard, Barkley, Stones, Rose etc are nowhere near his class. Richards, Hart, Rodwell and Delph are recent examples who got clubs after leaving City . Delph can barely move anymore either could Richards

[hippo]

Just now, Killeen30 said:

Manchester United signed Sanchez from Arsenal thinking he’d be great. Always risk involved unless your signing a Messi or Ronaldo type player. 

Proven players do flop of course. The fee just makes it less likely - but agree no such thing as a dead cert  

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

My point is:

The ones that are good enough to come and start for us at these clubs are the ones good enough to be a squad player at the top sides. They will cost alot with high wages. The rejects aren't good enough. And, even then, it's still a gamble if they have the correct desire once they take the drop.

We have to take from below, in the main, to garner any value for money on transfers and wages. 

I understand your point and it would be folly of me to dismiss it out of hand....But we are trying, I think to raise our profile.

Every player is a gamble, i think we agree on that.....I just think taking from below is a huge gamble and unlikely to raise our profile.....look no one is right on this, just stating my opinion.

E.G i am not proposing we follow the Man City model, because we can't compete financially, who can........but they changed their profile from the Mark Hughes and  Peter Reid days.....when they signed Robinho, they made a statement of intent and the rest is history.

[Killeen30]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Different era though. He was let go because of his off field issues and not sitting on a bench all season while getting 60-80k a week and going to semi retirement. 

Lingard, Barkley, Stones, Rose etc are nowhere near his class. Richards, Hart, Rodwell and Delph are recent examples who got clubs after leaving City . Delph can barely move anymore either could Richards

I read Stone Roses there mate. Haha!