Generic Virus Thread

[Genie]

12 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’ve never sent a tweet in my life but do have a Twitter account, I’m tempted to log in to just to send her some abuse.

People are well ahead of me, some of many.

 

[Chindie]

4 hours ago, Seat68 said:

Serious question and it may have been answered already and I may have missed it. Can Coronavirus be spread via passive smoking and/or passive vaping?

I doubt there's any actual data on it, but thinking through it logically...

The virus spreads in water droplets from your respiratory system. The droplets come from your breath, and more so from sneezes and coughs (as these eject far more droplets into the air). Smoke is partly water vapour and theoretically, if the smoke has come from the lungs, some of that water may be infected. The same is true of vape clouds, though perhaps more so as there's going be greater amounts of fluid in them. But in both cases it's probably only slightly more risky than the breath of an infected person anyway.

[PaulC]

28 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

The discussion around people who “might have died anyway” is really pissing me off. 
 

Im sure if it was your 75 year old mother who was dying now instead of in 5 years time you’d be a bit more bothered. 
 

People are dehumanising them as if they don’t matter. 

You miss my point. I value life. I was the one person on here that thought it was wrong to discuss Boris Johnson's successor when he was taken into icu and then start calling him Jesus when he came out of hospital. 

[DCJonah]

I've been out clapping for the NHS every Thursday and its been lovely. The majority of the street out and last week we even had 2 kids playing somewhere over the rainbow on a piano and recorder. It was pretty emotional. 

But tonight I'm not going to. Pisses me off that as a country we send the message that we really value our NHS and at the same time this government have ridiculously high approval ratings. I don't see how both can go hand in hand. 

So **** it. I'm going to miserable and not play along with the charade anymore. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said:

you can't just compare 1 year can you, It isn't a complete like for like, It can & does vary by hundreds/thousands every year

The uk march 2020 total is more than march 2019, but is hundreds less than the 5 year average

It's not a mystery what's happening here though is it:

(from the data kindly linked by @VILLAMARV on the previous page)

[markavfc40]

25 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I've been out clapping for the NHS every Thursday and its been lovely. The majority of the street out and last week we even had 2 kids playing somewhere over the rainbow on a piano and recorder. It was pretty emotional. 

But tonight I'm not going to. Pisses me off that as a country we send the message that we really value our NHS and at the same time this government have ridiculously high approval ratings. I don't see how both can go hand in hand. 

So **** it. I'm going to miserable and not play along with the charade anymore. 

I think you need to separate the two mate.

I can't get my head around the government approval rating but hey ho I can't get my head around anyone other than those without a social conscience voting Tory.

It also pisses me off that people who previously haven't really give a shit about the NHS and care workers etc are now lauding them as heroes in some cases because they want to jump on the gravy train and post a few pics/a video of themselves outside their house clapping on FB.

However as someone who has always valued our NHS/care workers etc I will be again outside tonight clapping as loudly as I can and will continue to beat the drum for our NHS and care workers in the years to come when all this is long forgotten and many have again gone back to not giving a shit.

Edited April 16, 2020 by markavfc40

[HanoiVillan]

I don't agree with the consensus on this thread that there's no point asking when the lockdown will end. It's a matter of legitimate, and very large, public interest. I wish they wouldn't repeatedly ask the same questions in the same press conference, of course, but that's just how media pooling works.

[snowychap]

3 hours ago, PaulC said:

Theres a case to be said that a lot of people who have  being included in the coronavirus figures for fatalities would have died anyway from one of their underlying health issues.  100 thousand people die annually in England in care homes. 

Not a very good one, there isn't.

Edited April 16, 2020 by snowychap

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't think that's right . . . I was looking earlier, but couldn't find it, but I recently saw a graph with 2019 and 2020 mortality in NY state mapped against each other, and January and February tracked each other very closely, but March 2020 was a bloody enormous uptick. I don't think it's hard to see all these people dying in the data.

I've seen a graph for London that sounds like it's the same picture.

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Not saying that at all. I am just stating that you might find a reduction in cases of deaths by heart attacks and Pneumonia in the coming months because they have been reported as deaths by covid 19. 

Again, same if I hit the old lady off the crossing, she was going to die anyway so what’s all the stress?

For every person killed in a road accident, that’s one less pneumonia or heart attack, so why bother restricting my driving.

[LondonLax]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't think that's right . . . I was looking earlier, but couldn't find it, but I recently saw a graph with 2019 and 2020 mortality in NY state mapped against each other, and January and February tracked each other very closely, but March 2020 was a bloody enormous uptick. I don't think it's hard to see all these people dying in the data.

The recorded number of deaths in Europe for all causes is shown here: 

https://www.euromomo.eu

Some countries, like Germany or Ireland, are actually recording less deaths than usual at the moment whilst their countries are locked down, however some countries, like Spain, Italy and the UK are recording a spike. The spike is of a similar magnitude to deaths in the 2016/17 winter flu season but that is with the benefit of a lockdown. Presumably it would have been higher without the lockdown. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by LondonLax

[jackbauer24]

22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It's not a mystery what's happening here though is it:

(from the data kindly linked by @VILLAMARV on the previous page)

Just to throw another caveat in to that data, without making a particular statement, the number of 'excess deaths' this week is far higher than the number attributed to Covid19 in reports. There are a number of schools of thought on why this might be but the lockdown is one possible culprit due to increased strain on mental health and people's fear about attending any hospital and leaving otherwise treatable 'incidents' too long with devastating results.

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

Quite, that's probably why some of us felt compelled to reply...

I don't think @Stevo985's frustrations were being leveled at your contribution, Marv - more at the fact that a debate was being had on those lines at all.

[LakotaDakota]

The figures also show that deaths from heart disease are massively down on what they would usually be, Guessing the majority of these are now listed as covid or have thousands of people suddenly stopped dying of heart issues?

All figures are from the ONS, Mail have chucked them all on one page

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8225245/What-coronavirus-death-figures-REALLY-show.html

Data compiled by the Office for National Statistics broke down the details of all the COVID-19 victims who succumbed to the illness in March

 

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

The discussion around people who “might have died anyway” is really pissing me off. 
 

Im sure if it was your 75 year old mother who was dying now instead of in 5 years time you’d be a bit more bothered. 
 

People are dehumanising them as if they don’t matter. 

Spot on Stevo! 

My Mum was 82 when she died. Let me tell you, the doctors that saw Mum at Good Hope Hospital were f**king heartless, callous and careless in their treatment of my Mum. It was as if they couldn't wait for her to die to free-up the bed. 

Me, my Dad and my Brother held a meeting with them after Mum's death to let them know just how dismayed we were at the way Mum was treated. I actually threatened the one doctor because he pissed me off with his cocky and abrupt attitude. He soon apologised for his behaviour when he realised just how angry we could be. 

[LondonLax]

4 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

The figures also show that deaths from heart disease are massively down on what they would usually be, Guessing the majority of these are now listed as covid or have thousands of people suddenly stopped dying of heart issues?

All figures are from the ONS, Mail have chucked them all on one page

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8225245/What-coronavirus-death-figures-REALLY-show.html

Data compiled by the Office for National Statistics broke down the details of all the COVID-19 victims who succumbed to the illness in March

 

If you have a look at the https://www.euromomo.eu website I posed above, March was a below average month for deaths in the UK but there has now been a spike in April (week 14 being the peak).

I’d say the reason deaths in March were down was because the lockdown was in effect but the majority of cases in ICU were still alive, those people who died didn’t come into the figures until April.

[Jareth]

So we have the capacity, but we're not using it - from a scientist at one of the new mega-labs. Herd Immunity by incompetence? 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/16/swab-tester-uk-germany-south-korea

 

We have donned our double gloves, face masks and eye shields – Covid-19’s fashion essentials. The biosafety cabinets whirr reassuringly in the background, the robots hum, and the radio blasts rock tunes. All systems are go. Then comes the call: “We are finished. No more swabs. You can go home.” It’s midday. Our shift had only started at eight.

On 12 April, the United States performed 140,000 tests. Italy more than 48,000. Turkey 35,000. Germany is averaging 50,000 a day. In the UK, total tests numbered just short of 16,000 on Tuesday. Just in our lab, we could have easily done 8,000. We are ready; why aren’t we being sent more swabs?

Edited April 16, 2020 by Jareth

[ml1dch]

No idea whether it's interesting or means anything, but the 8PM clap was noticeably different. First couple of weeks I could probably see 40 people out clapping. Tonight was around 8.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't agree with the consensus on this thread that there's no point asking when the lockdown will end. It's a matter of legitimate, and very large, public interest. I wish they wouldn't repeatedly ask the same questions in the same press conference, of course, but that's just how media pooling works.

But it’s seconds after he’s just said they won’t tell us. And then the next journalist asks it and then the next one. 
 

at least phrase it to put pressure on them. “Germany have laid out a roadmap as to how they’re going to lift the lockdown. Why aren’t we doing the same?”

instead it’s 

Raab: it would be irresponsible of us to predict when we’ll lift the lockdown

reporter 1: when are you lifting the lockdown?

Raab: It would be irresponsible of us to predict when we’ll lift the lockdown 

Reporter 2: yeahhh... but when will you be lifting the lockdown?

Raab: it would be irresponsible of us to predict when we’ll lift the lockdown

Reporter 3: could you tell us when you’ll lift the lockdown?

[KHV]

9 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

No idea whether it's interesting or means anything, but the 8PM clap was noticeably different. First couple of weeks I could probably see 40 people out clapping. Tonight was around 8.

Nobody was out on our street