markavfc40 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 I don't know what the point is of this graph they keep showing with regard deaths in comparison to other countries as when comparing UK with France is showing a false picture as France includes deaths in care homes. Apparently if France was only showing deaths in hospital they would be over a thousand deaths behind us. Can only assume they are trying to paint what may well be a false picture that in comparison to some countries we are not currently looking like we are doing as bad. Be interesting to see if we ever get a true picture of how many deaths we have had including in the community and care homes. Some care home providers suggested today that deaths in care homes exceed those in hospitals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) Theres a case to be said that a lot of people who have being included in the coronavirus figures for fatalities would have died anyway from one of their underlying health issues. 100 thousand people die annually in England in care homes. Edited April 16, 2020 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, PaulC said: Theres a case to be said that a lot of people who have being included in the coronavirus figures for fatalities would have died anyway from one of their underlying health issues. 100 thousand people die annually in England in care homes. Everyone 'will die anyway' because nobody is immortal. If what you mean is they would have died this year, that is a very small fraction of the total number of deaths so far. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, PaulC said: Theres a case to be said that a lot of people who have being included in the coronavirus figures for fatalities would have died anyway from one of their underlying health issues. 100 thousand people die annually in England in care homes. More deaths this year means people taken 5/10/20 years before their time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Everyone 'will die anyway' because nobody is immortal. If what you mean is they would have died this year, that is a very small fraction of the total number of deaths so far. None of us know that. I'm just repeating what has been stated on the bbc new 24 channel. Did you know the average life expectancy for people living in care homes is just two years. I know these care home people aren't included in the official figures. But its more complicated than people are making out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Seat68 said: Serious question and it may have been answered already and I may have missed it. Can Coronavirus be spread via passive smoking and/or passive vaping? Dr Hilary and some bloke I saw on Sky the other day said no, there is no additional risk. That being said, I’ve seen something else recently where they reckon a ‘cough cloud’ (area of output from a cough) can spread much further and hang around longer than previously though (indoors) and the recommended 2m social distancing might not be enough. I suppose there’s is a chance you could get it if you walk into someone’s vape/Fag cloud and inhale it? Now there is this thing with masks too where the ‘consensus’ seems to be shifting from them not being effective and we shouldn’t wear them, to we should be wearing them when out and on public transport. I’m not exactly confident in the advice being dished out tbh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, wazzap24 said: Dr Hilary and some bloke I saw on Sky the other day said no, there is no additional risk. That being said, I’ve seen something else recently where they reckon a ‘cough cloud’ (area of output from a cough) can spread much further and hang around longer than previously though (indoors) and the recommended 2m social distancing might not be enough. I suppose there’s is a chance you could get it if you walk into someone’s vape/Fag cloud and inhale it? Now there is this thing with masks too where the ‘consensus’ seems to be shifting from them not being effective and we shouldn’t wear them, to we should be wearing them when out and on public transport. I’m not exactly confident in the advice being dished out tbh! I would think that masks help stop people giving the virus but increases the possibility of the wearer getting it and getting a bigger dose of it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, PaulC said: None of us know that. I'm just repeating what has been stated on the bbc new 24 channel. Did you know the average life expectancy for people living in care homes is just two years. I know these care home people aren't included in the official figures. But its more complicated than people are making out What we know is that average life expextancy for women who reach the age of 75 (well into the high-risk range for coronavirus) is 13.2 years, and 11.6 years for men. People live longer than you think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 The consensus on masks is 'shifting' seemingly because misleading public health information was promoted earlier in the pandemic, as governments in western countries decided they needed to persuade people that masks were useless so that the general public didn't purchase them all and make it even harder for governments to distribute them to medical professionals. As mask distribution normalises, and governments have a firmer grip on supply chains, the advice is now becoming that they help reduce the spread of the virus. My understanding is that the only way a mask can increase your chances of *catching* the virus is if you repeatedly put them on when they are wet. Otherwise, they will help reduce the spread of the virus, by some amount (but then any amount is an improvement). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: What we know is that average life expextancy for women who reach the age of 75 (well into the high-risk range for coronavirus) is 13.2 years, and 11.6 years for men. People live longer than you think. I know, people who live a healthy life style and are genetically sound can live well beyond 100. But I also question this age danger thing. I know people in their 70s who are way fitter and healthier than some people in their 50s. Are they at greater risk just because of the age or is it just because they are more likely to have underlying health issues at that age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: The consensus on masks is 'shifting' seemingly because misleading public health information was promoted earlier in the pandemic, as governments in western countries decided they needed to persuade people that masks were useless so that the general public didn't purchase them all and make it even harder for governments to distribute them to medical professionals. As mask distribution normalises, and governments have a firmer grip on supply chains, the advice is now becoming that they help reduce the spread of the virus. My understanding is that the only way a mask can increase your chances of *catching* the virus is if you repeatedly put them on when they are wet. Otherwise, they will help reduce the spread of the virus, by some amount (but then any amount is an improvement). Guess if you use them properly and clean them thoroughly everytime you wear it then I agree, I dunno a lot of the ones people use are not built for purpose and any of the virus that's gets inside could increase the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, PaulC said: I know, people who live a healthy life style and are genetically sound can live well beyond 100. But I also question this age danger thing. I know people in their 70s who are way fitter and healthier than some people in their 50s. Are they at greater risk just because of the age or is it just because they are more likely to have underlying health issues at that age? From the data, we can see that mortality rates are much higher amongst the over-70's or people with an underlying health condition. I don't think we have enough data to say for certain whether a 75 year old with no underlying conditions is in more or less danger than a 45 year old with severe asthma, for example. Maybe we'll be able to see that better in the future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, PaulC said: None of us know that. I'm just repeating what has been stated on the bbc new 24 channel. Did you know the average life expectancy for people living in care homes is just two years. I know these care home people aren't included in the official figures. But its more complicated than people are making out Lets say those figures are true and those thousands of people who are dying in care homes are losing 6 months, a year, 18 months, 2 years, 4 years of live they would otherwise of had if they hadn't of contracted coronavirus. Does anyone seriously think those lost lives don't warrant being included in the figures as it may distort them? A lost live from this is to be valued be it someone dying 50 years before their time in their 30's or 6 months before their time in their 80's On a wider point, and not pointing the finger at anyone on here, but it never ceases to amaze me how little value some people put on life until it affects them or one of theirs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 As I said before as well, people need to remember that there's a big difference between dying on a ward with your family all round you, saying goodbye and holding your hand, and dying on your own, struggling to breathe, surrounded by stressed and frantic medical workers who haven't got time to give you care that might keep you alive. The quality of your death matters too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 First major election of the coronavirus era has been in South Korea: For those involved in earlier conversations about approval bumps for incumbents, you may want to note that the party of the incumbent president appears to be on track to win the largest majority ever in the National Assembly (though of course Korean politics is not only about coronavirus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 I suspect working out the number of people who died of covid vs the number who would have been expected to die anyway you can only really analyse in hindsight. It's a bit cold talking about it right now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I suspect working out the number of people who died of covid vs the number who would have been expected to die anyway you can only really analyse in hindsight. It's a bit cold talking about it right now anyway. I don't think that's right . . . I was looking earlier, but couldn't find it, but I recently saw a graph with 2019 and 2020 mortality in NY state mapped against each other, and January and February tracked each other very closely, but March 2020 was a bloody enormous uptick. I don't think it's hard to see all these people dying in the data. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xann Posted April 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2020 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Whisper it quietly, but the 9-day death totals in the Midlands have been declining (albeit by just a little) for three days in a row now: (from: https://twitter.com/danielhowdon/status/1250775207092117506) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, PaulC said: Theres a case to be said that a lot of people who have being included in the coronavirus figures for fatalities would have died anyway from one of their underlying health issues. 100 thousand people die annually in England in care homes. That was exactly my argument when I skittled that old lady off the zebra crossing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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