Generic Virus Thread

[tom_avfc]

6 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

You think it has?

The testing of the vaccination was obviously fast tracked due to the emergency nature of what we're dealing with here. Do you actually know what testing has been done in comparison to other drugs/vaccines?

Would you be more comfortable with the development and testing process if it had sat on various people's desks for months and years? Is there a cut off point in terms of years and/or months that would make the idea of having the vaccination more comfortable to you? Yes, it was a fast tracked process because it needed to be.

I hate the argument that the speed at which the vaccine has been produced and released means that its not tested properly. Its discrediting the great work that many people have put in to get a vaccine in place to mitigate some of the threat caused by the most serious pandemic in years. 

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, tom_avfc said:

The testing of the vaccination was obviously fast tracked due to the emergency nature of what we're dealing with here. Do you actually know what testing has been done in comparison to other drugs/vaccines?

Would you be more comfortable with the development and testing process if it had sat on various people's desks for months and years? Is there a cut off point in terms of years and/or months that would make the idea of having the vaccination more comfortable to you? Yes, it was a fast tracked process because it needed to be.

I hate the argument that the speed at which the vaccine has been produced and released means that its not tested properly. Its discrediting the great work that many people have put in to get a vaccine in place to mitigate some of the threat caused by the most serious pandemic in years. 

Is correct.

The shortness of the testing and approval is purely the time it's not been sitting on desks.  they have put it through exactly the same testing, just rolled consecutively with no breaks in between caused by bureaucracy

[Dante_Lockhart]

1 minute ago, tom_avfc said:

The testing of the vaccination was obviously fast tracked due to the emergency nature of what we're dealing with here. Do you actually know what testing has been done in comparison to other drugs/vaccines?

Would you be more comfortable with the development and testing process if it had sat on various people's desks for months and years? Is there a cut off point in terms of years and/or months that would make the idea of having the vaccination more comfortable to you? Yes, it was a fast tracked process because it needed to be.

I hate the argument that the speed at which the vaccine has been produced and released means that its not tested properly. Its discrediting the great work that many people have put in to get a vaccine in place to mitigate some of the threat caused by the most serious pandemic in years. 

I've no doubt that people have put long hours and serious dedication into this - but the statement posed was that it hadn't been tested for long enough on humans. If in 3 or 4 years time there are health issues arising from having the vaccine then it'll be too late as the vast majority have had it. Longer testing, as with previous vaccines, may have shown this.

I know it was a pandemic, and I know funding was rushed through, and I know that people were desperate for the jab so life can go back to normal - I just have concerns, which I think are justified. I'm not expecting everyone to agree with those concerns, but for people to shout abuse and guilt trip me over it is pissing me off.

[bickster]

23 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Discovery and research, testing, trials, more trials, manufacture, quality control. Usually takes anything from 5 to 15 years? This was a year start to finish IIRC.

The vaccine rollout WAS the trials in my opinion. Forgive me for thinking corners have been cut.

Most of that is irrelevant because once a vaccine has got to stage III, it really doesn't matter how long it took to get to that stage. That has all been done, it was all done at speed because of the nature of this pandemic but all the Pre-Phase III trials and tests were done and passed mainly because of the money thrown at the situation by governments. None of those trials are aimed at any long term effects. Even Phase III doesn't do that, that is Phase IV and only happens after a vaccine is licensed. Given that the Vaccine has been rolled out for in excess of ten months now with very little in the way of side effects to many millions of people bigger that any Phase III trial in the history of the world (and longer too), why do you consider it unsafe?

The length of all the trials is now currently irrelevant as an argument, it has no longer been rushed. What has been speeded up, is funding for both the developing companies and the regulatory bodies in the approval process. Nothing has been rushed in the actual trials and even if it had been, it has now been rolled out much longer than any Phase III trial of any drug / vaccine ever so even if you consider the rollout to be the Phase III trial (it isn't), it has passed that trial with flying colours.

 

[desensitized43]

13 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Is correct.

The shortness of the testing and approval is purely the time it's not been sitting on desks.  they have put it through exactly the same testing, just rolled consecutively with no breaks in between caused by bureaucracy

Not to mention it's probably the first time in human history the scientists haven't had to fight every step of the way for funding. It's amazing what can get done when money is no object.

[bickster]

The largest ever vaccine trial in history?

The trial of the Polio Vaccine. 1.3 million US children in what we would now call a Phase III Trial. It took a year. We are well beyond that point here. The hasn't been tested for long enough argument is no longer valid

[sharkyvilla]

Also do people have an example of a vaccine that actually has ended up causing widespread problems years after they got first administered that causes them to be so frightened of this one?

[StefanAVFC]

I don't get this 'lack of testing' argument.

Would people rather die of something that definitely has a chance to kill you, or take a vaccine that's been rushed through (but passed all tests)?

[tom_avfc]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I don't get this 'lack of testing' argument.

Would people rather die of something that definitely has a chance to kill you, or take a vaccine that's been rushed through (but passed all tests)?

The potential long term side effects is an argument that I don't get as well. Haven't we already got plenty of evidence of long Covid lasting over a year in many cases?

I'd take my chances on a highly improbable long term side effect of the vaccine which has never been seen in any previous vaccine over the potential long term effects of contracting Covid itself. 

[mjmooney]

I'm still convinced that some of those coming up with specious reasons not to have the vaccination are simply trying to hide the fact that they're scared of needles. 

[Seat68]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

I'm still convinced that some of those coming up with specious reasons not to have the vaccination are simply trying to hide the fact that they're scared of needles. 

It's a fair assertion. Had my flu jab yesterday, I put it off last year for the reason that I am scared of needles. Covid jabs made me realise I am ok with them these days. 

[bobzy]

34 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

The potential long term side effects is an argument that I don't get as well. Haven't we already got plenty of evidence of long Covid lasting over a year in many cases?

I'd take my chances on a highly improbable long term side effect of the vaccine which has never been seen in any previous vaccine over the potential long term effects of contracting Covid itself. 

One of my missus' best friends is suffering with long Covid (or, post viral fatigue).  Has been off work for well over a year, improved a bit in terms of energy but seems to have plateaued now.  Had an absolutely devastating impact on her.  Basically having to sack off a successful career, unable to look after their 2 young kids on her own.  Husband has had to take a big step back from work - he works 2 days a week now I think - to be able to cope with the demands of the kids plus everything "life admin" related.  Absolutely nothing they can do about it.  She could be suffering from a debilitating fatigue for years.

 

(Mid-30's, no underlying health conditions, (I would say very) healthy.  Probably had Covid in the early days circa March 2020 - symptoms were a cough and lack of taste/smell.  That was it.)

[Genie]

@Dante_Lockhart could at least thank us all for having the vaccine so his life can go back close to normal  

If everyone took the attitude of refusing for a bizarre unsubstantiated reason we’d all still be locked in our houses.

You're welcome  

[lapal_fan]

The technology used in the RNA vaccines (which is the famously "rushed" testing phase) has been around since 2002.  It's NOT a new idea.

The thing that was "rushed" (and rushed doesn't mean numbers of people tested, but the decision to push through ONCE they had been tested) was the testing on human subjects phase. 

>100k people stepped forward to that, making it the largest testing phase in history. 

You've got to be careful when you read headlines, because they're often misleading - thank **** the people who created the vaccines probably were above this level of stupidity/"thinking"  

[bickster]

12 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

100k people stepped forward to that, making it the largest testing phase in history

This bit isn't true, see my above post. 1.3 million US children were tested with Polio Vaccine in 1954.

It doesn't help when lines like this are trotted out by *insert whoever said it first* and they become some sort of undeniable truth even though they are demonstrably wrong (not your fault Lapal)

[choffer]

 

[Davkaus]

11 minutes ago, choffer said:

 

[Mic09]

On 01/11/2021 at 19:02, Genie said:

It would have to be every government on the planet… and doctors, scientists, professors etc.

Are they all in on it?

No, but what I find interesting that one of the biggest weapons of the political left has always been opposition to big pharma, mixing capitalism and healthcare. I'm not on the left, but I always applauded this view.

But now if you question phitzer and their vaccine you are often laughed out of the room.

I got double phitzer'ed, but I find this change interesting, and worrying.

If it's not the left, then who will look deeper into big pharma?

[Mic09]

I wonder what's next for vaccines.

Because what we got so far, is a very imperfect, short lasting drug. 

The effects hugely decrease after 6 months, and it's unrealistic (and very expensive) to booster everyone every half a year. 

Does anyone know at what speed and with what drive the pharma companies are looking at making improved drugs? Are Phitzer/Astrazeneca et al having a yacht party Wolf of Wall Street style, or are governments pushing them for improved medicine?

Of course, it's unreasonable for anyone to admit that what we have isn't as good as we hoped for, and it's not the end of the fight against this virus.

So I wonder, what's next?

[Mozzavfc]

4 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

Also do people have an example of a vaccine that actually has ended up causing widespread problems years after they got first administered that causes them to be so frightened of this one?

I think most people's fears come from the Thalidomide scandal in the 50s and 60s