Douglas Luiz

[Davkaus]

I was going to wait to watch him get his medal. 25 minutes later, bored now, what are they playing at?  

[AntrimBlack]

2 minutes ago, nepal_villan said:

Congratulations to Dougie. Hope it will boost his confidence.

I watched a few of Brazil's matches and felt Douglas was very pedestrian and lacked any sort of cutting edge.  He is still a longway from the form he was in during Project Restart.

There should not be any reason why he cannot recapture that form.

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Seeing this post made me go further a rabbit hole into how many yellow cards he got last season because I remember him getting quite a lot of them.

I found out that indeed, he had a lot of yellow cards last season. 10 yellow cards if you count second yellows as well,  joint 4th most out of any player last season.

Surprisingly Mcginn has even more with 12 yellow cards(or 11 depending on the source) putting him as the player with the most yellow cards out of anyone last season. First time I've heard of it.

 

Luiz also got 8 yellow cards the season before so its pretty much consistent for him but Mcginn only got 3 the season before there's a massive jump for him. I wonder what's the cause of this. 

Well McGinn was injured last season. But a lot of his cards come from lazy challenges late in games as he is tired. The more minutes he plays the quicker he racks up cards. 

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Surprisingly Mcginn has even more with 12 yellow cards(or 11 depending on the source) putting him as the player with the most yellow cards out of anyone last season. First time I've heard of it

Nothing surprising about this. Putting money on a McGinn yellow card is basically a guaranteed profit over a season… or at least it was before they started slashing the odds haha - I think he was actually odds on for England v Scotland

[KentVillan]

You’d expect your centre mids to pick up the most yellows, surely? They’re the ones doing the most tactical fouls and they’re in the action through each phase of play.

Guess jury’s out on Dougie, but we have a player who has just won an Olympic gold, was wanted at City by Guardiola, and has had at least one longish spell of very good form for Villa… and is only 23. And as far as anyone knows, isn’t disruptive or a bad character.

So tbh I think we should stick with him as long as possible, let him fight for his place with whoever comes in. I get that some people aren’t convinced yet, but I don’t understand all the negativity.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, nepal_villan said:

Congratulations to Dougie. Hope it will boost his confidence.

I watched a few of Brazil's matches and felt Douglas was very pedestrian and lacked any sort of cutting edge.  He is still a longway from the form he was in during Project Restart.

I thought he won MOTM in one of them? 

He posted something on his insta about being the highest rated player via some stat website 

[sparrow1988]

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I thought he won MOTM in one of them? 

He posted something on his insta about being the highest rated player via some stat website 

He was in the quarter final, in the semi final he was good as well. Today he was also decent from what I saw (the broadcasters in Germany didn't help at all). Did his job, nothing spectacular, won the ball well, didn't give it away much, passing was good.

He had a very poor first game and was sent off in the second. After he came back from that suspension he was very good.

[Phil Silvers]

 

[Brumstopdogs]

 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

I take your point as always TRO Bellingham is potentially a generational talent though. That’s why he’d cost at least 3x as much as any of our midfield and will spend his whole career in the CL. He is the best/most valuable player of his age in the world. So yes I’ll accept he’d be a better option!

 

It was my reponse to DL being 23, as if its some sort of cop out, for not doing the job.....sure he's learning but the basics of a DM are not there....imo.

Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

9 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I don't think his stats are that bad tbh. 

In that top(offensive) section, it looks bad but he is technically a defensive midfielder. It makes sense his offensive stats would not be that good relative to central midfielders in general. The middle section is biased(passing and posessions) by the low amount of touches he gets on the pitch relative to other midfielders. The one stat that should not be affected by that is his pass completion rate which is decent. The last section(defensively) is decent overall.

My problem with Luiz is that it seems like his decent at everything and not particularly good at anything. Which is fine I guess if we want a guy who won't need to be carried and we need him to plug a hole in midfield. But unless he gains a clear strength somewhere in his game, he won't be anything more.

I don't think its a coincidence that the team performed a lot better with Nakamba in the team than with Luiz even though overall I think they're about par. Nakamba may be far less well rounded, but he excels defensively in a position we would really benefit from having someone who excels defensively instead of a jack of all trade type in Luiz.

Perhaps a team with Nakamba in DM and Luiz and Mcginn and CM could work but I don't think Smith sees Luiz as a CM anymore.

 

The problem is Luiz and McGinn together are the issue, neither is a DM.

I like both players, but not as DM's

If they had a Dedicated DM alongside them, it might be better.

Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

You’d expect your centre mids to pick up the most yellows, surely? They’re the ones doing the most tactical fouls and they’re in the action through each phase of play.

Guess jury’s out on Dougie, but we have a player who has just won an Olympic gold, was wanted at City by Guardiola, and has had at least one longish spell of very good form for Villa… and is only 23. And as far as anyone knows, isn’t disruptive or a bad character.

So tbh I think we should stick with him as long as possible, let him fight for his place with whoever comes in. I get that some people aren’t convinced yet, but I don’t understand all the negativity.

There is no negativity, just some of us don't rate him as a DM....and have explained why.

I get the opinion of not releasing him.....but it still doesn't answer the question of who is going to shore up centre midfield and stop us being attacked, through the middle as we often did last season.

McGinn alongside him is not much better, because they do not have the natural attributes of a DM.....you might get away with one but not two.

Its widely accepted our weak spot is the midfield 2.....that is the point being made, but ultimately it sits with the 2 who play there.

The stats support this argument too.....Nakamba is a better stopper, but lacks the ball skills of a quality DM.

If any of them improve next season, then fine, but from, what I have seen, we will be short in that area.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, 7392craig said:

I’ve always said he looks more of a CM rather than a DM. This might be the season we see the best of him depending on how we’re gonna set up.

I agree....I'm not saying he is a bad player, far from it.....but he is not a DM, and when he plays there, we are short.

the 2 in a 4-2-31 is our weak spot.

Its not necessarily a sleight on him, his skills should be deployed elsewhere.

Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO

[Rightdm00]

2 hours ago, DakotaVilla said:

This thread is **** up shit.

Go back 10 months and this was the guy we were worried about losing to City not the snake who ultimately achieved his desire of leaving. 
 

Mans just got to Copa America final, winning the Olympic final but apparently isn’t good enough for us. Give your head a wobble and then give him a big contract - duggie will be a champions league midfielder with or without us. 
 

 

You don't understand it's only the players that have to show loyal, undying fealty to the club. The fans are allowed to berate them, sell them on, and declare them untalented waste of spaces. 

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I think his close control, ball control is among the best I've seen, he is equally good with both feet, solves tight situations like few others, makes all type of passes with inside/outside of his feet, that tika-taka passing style ability. His passing is first class, it is so important to have a CM who finds spaces and can make forward passes, solve tight situations to keep the ball within the team rather than just tap it back, pass sideways or hoof it. Just as an example of his technique he has at several occations solved tight situations when pressed agains out own corner flag that make you wonder how that was possible. He also has the ability to find forward passes like very few others, and it's his exquisite technique and footballing brain that enables that. It goes a bit unnoticed as it often is the pass in the own half in sequnces before a chance, so it's not an assist och goal scoring opportunity, but as important to get there. He has also got a good strike in him as we have seen.

Defensively he is actually really good, he reads the game perfectly and is feisty and often wins the one on ones. I feel like I'm repeating myself in this thread, but I am fully convinced that we get the best out of him as the lone holind midfielder. In a two man holding MF role I can understand that you and others aren't always impressed. He is one of few who can dictate the play, remember after the corona break last season how Deano was screaming "Douggi Douggi" all the time to make our defenders pass him, all our build up play went through him, and he then had his best spell for us. When he is the lone holding MF sitting between the defence and midfield he has all the space there for himself, all rthe range of the pitch from left to right. When he is played as one of the two holding midfielders he get much more restricted, does only have half the space and is not the natural focal point of the build up play.

Also think about his potential! Former U23 Brazil captain and in the Brazil squad, and he is only 23! I feel there are sometimes another expectation on him. Imagine we had an english 23 year old in the full England squad showing the technique and potential that Luiz has, would we want to sell him then? 

 

You called him a CM....but he plays for us as a DM.....unless, I should be looking at another player, to stop the opposition, win the ball and drive on offensively. i accept his attributes are more aligned with a CM, I grant you that.

I respect your view but it is entirely different to mine, on this role he plays.

He does anything but dictate the play, thats the issue...I don't see an issue with his passing ability, but a DM requires more than just that.

Look, I get he is a favourite player of yours and I don't want to burst the bubble....I actually wished you was right and me wrong.....but we can only value Doug on the role he is asked to play.

but you have still not answered, who is responsible for stopping the raids through the middle if its not Dougie, because he doesn't do it.

you say he has a good strike on him....he has scored one goal in my recollection, but not holding that against him in the role he plays.

The stats which I don't always cling to do not suggest the picture you paint of him.

Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO

[thabucks]

Does he play as a DM or deep lying play maker and double pivot … You don’t know what his instructions are from Smith also …

The game has moved on  it fans views haven’t. Tired of these outdated descriptions of a DM from some whose football knowledge is based on a bygone era. If you think Douglas Luiz is the issue then I’m baffled …  

Edited August 7, 2021 by thabucks

[Rightdm00]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

You called him a CM....but he plays for us as a DM.....unless, I should be looking at another player, to stop the opposition, win the ball and drive on offensively. i accept his attributes are more aligned with a CM, I grant you that.

I respect your view but it is entirely different to mine, on this role he plays.

He does anything but dictate the play, thats the issue...I don't see an issue with his passing ability, but a DM requires more than just that.

Look, I get he is a favourite player of yours and I don't want to burst the bubble....I actually wished you was right and me wrong.....but we can only value Doug on the role he is asked to play.

but you have still not answered, who is responsible for stopping the raids through the middle if its not Dougie, because he doesn't do it.

you say he has a good strike on him....he has scored one goal in my recollection, but not holding that against him in the role he plays.

The stats which I don't always cling to do not suggest the picture you paint of him.

2 goals, both of which were absolute worldies from outside the box. That's besides the point though. You asked whose job it is to stop raids through the middle?

I want to speak to the idea of a players job on the field.  Some seem to look a DM, see the defensive part of his name, and solely apply the job of defending to him.  Their is only one job that falls to a single player in football and that's the goalkeeper. He is the only player who can use his hands to prevent a goal. No other player can help in that endeavor. Every other job is performed by multiple individuals. Defense especially. 

Douglas looked great the first half of the season. Actually, the entire team looked good from a defensive standpoint. Then Barkley tweaked his hammy and became a non-entity from a defensive standpoint for the rest of the season.  That threw the entire balance of our midfield off and we never really got it back. 

Could Douglas improve his game, absolutely. He is only 23 and has not even gotten close to entering his prime years. Defending is a team game though. Everyone must track their runners. Fullbacks can't be left on an island 2V1 and the same goes for our midfielders. 

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

There is no negativity, just some of us don't rate him as a DM....and have explained why.

I get the opinion of not releasing him.....but it still doesn't answer the question of who is going to shore up centre midfield and stop us being attacked, through the middle as we often did last season.

McGinn alongside him is not much better, because they do not have the natural attributes of a DM.....you might get away with one but not two.

Its widely accepted our weak spot is the midfield 2.....that is the point being made, but ultimately it sits with the 2 who play there.

The stats support this argument too.....Nakamba is a better stopper, but lacks the ball skills of a quality DM.

If any of them improve next season, then fine, but from, what I have seen, we will be short in that area.

I think you’re right that we could do with signing a “destroyer”. Nakamba is very good defensively but is so poor in possession. But someone with Nakamba’s defensive skills and better touch, passing etc would be great to have in the squad.

I still think Dougie will continue to do a job as a deep midfielder. Not every match needs an out and out tackler in the middle. Sometimes the Dougie type is what you want.

How would you compare Dougie with players like Petrov and Whelan out of interest? Or looking at other clubs, Michael Carrick? None of them were known for their tackling but all played quite deep.

[Keener window-cleaner]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

but you have still not answered, who is responsible for stopping the raids through the middle if its not Dougie, because he doesn't do it.

I actually think he is really good at that, one of few who follows his man and tracks back, comes natural to him. Dougi is not the quickest though, hence why he draws quite many fouls, although many does in that position. It's also why I want him to be the holding midfielder, he doesn't get caught out as much when he sits in front of the defence.

I share your liking for a big strong MF general though, and that's why I want us to bring one in. Against the weaker teams I think we can play 4-3-3 with Luiz as holding, but against the better ones we probably need to play two. I don't see McGinn or Sanson as the holding midfielders and Nakamba, while I like him, I'm not sure if he is good enough. So we do need another midfielder who is good defensively and preferrably is a good passer as well.

What do you think of Sander Berge? Doesn't he have all the attributes to be that midfield general? JWP I'm not convinced is good enough defensively. Who other would you prefer that is gettable? 

[Kiwivillan]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

The problem is Luiz and McGinn together are the issue, neither is a DM.

I like both players, but not as DM's

If they had a Dedicated DM alongside them, it might be better.

You don't have to have a DM but seems an obsession on here. Our record without Barkley last season was very decent. He was the defensive issue doing nothing off the ball