Popular Post Kiwivillan Posted August 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2021 1 hour ago, thabucks said: Does he play as a DM or deep lying play maker and double pivot … You don’t know what his instructions are from Smith also … The game has moved on it fans views haven’t. Tired of these outdated descriptions of a DM from some whose football knowledge is based on a bygone era. If you think Douglas Luiz is the issue then I’m baffled … Absolutely this! 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said: You don't have to have a DM but seems an obsession on here. Our record without Barkley last season was very decent. He was the defensive issue doing nothing off the ball Agree, you don't need a DM if the others do their defensive work. The way Barkley didn't track back and at times just stood still half arsed in our half was appaling to see and effects the whole team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 1 hour ago, thabucks said: Does he play as a DM or deep lying play maker and double pivot … You don’t know what his instructions are from Smith also … The game has moved on it fans views haven’t. Tired of these outdated descriptions of a DM from some whose football knowledge is based on a bygone era. If you think Douglas Luiz is the issue then I’m baffled … Outdated? LMAO Rodri, Fabinho, Ndidi Having a good old destroyer is certainly not outdated. It's as important as ever. The midfield is a balancing act. If you don't have all the right ingredients your cake will be messy. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Outdated? LMAO Rodri, Fabinho, Ndidi Having a good old destroyer is certainly not outdated. It's as important as ever. The midfield is a balancing act. If you don't have all the right ingredients your cake will be messy. Rodri and Fabinho aren't just "destroyers" they control the game. Rodri especially he completed more passes per game than anyone else in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: Rodri and Fabinho aren't just "destroyers" they control the game. Rodri especially he completed more passes per game than anyone else in the league. And they are also highly specialists in winning back the ball. Yeah they can pass too. Doesn't mean they are not classified "destroyers". As for controlling the game. Luiz ain't controlling anything. Edited August 7, 2021 by villalad21 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted August 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 7, 2021 If your team have 80% possession then the dm is less important but still necessary. Having watched us in every minute of every game for the last 3 seasons we have lacked that player. Douglas is a great player but he's not an affective dm, he gives to many fouls away trying to be something he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: As for controlling the game. Luiz ain't controlling anything. See that you are back to your trolling style again. So Luiz didn't control our game after project restart? When very much of our build up play went through him and Deano was screaming "Dougie! Dougie!" all the time for the balls to go via him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Just now, tinker said: If your team have 80% possession then the dm is less important but still necessary. Having watched us in every minute of every game for the last 3 seasons we have lacked that player. Douglas is a great player but he's not an affective dm, he gives to many fouls away trying to be something he's not. We conceded 3 goals against Palace. 3 goals against Burnley. This myth that we don't need a DM against the lesser sides doesn't hold much ground. Every team will have their moments in a game and will put you under pressure at some point. Luiz just isn't very well equipped to combat that. His strengths are with the ball, not off the ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said: See that you are back to your trolling style again. So Luiz didn't control our game after project restart? When very much of our build up play went through him and Deano was screaming "Dougie! Dougie!" all the time for the balls to go via him? That's over a year ago buddy. Project Restart was a very specific period. The normal PL tempo actually dramatically decreased which suited Luiz more. Edited August 7, 2021 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TRO Posted August 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2021 Congrats Dougie on your Gold Medal....very well done. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 It’s getting tedious the call for an archaic mythical player who doesn’t exist anymore … Go back and watch replays of games in the past to get your fix as you won’t in the modern game … I know it’s an opinion as valid as mine, however, it’s just wrong and outdated… maybe that’s why Ty Bracey thinks VT is full of oldies as if you do not evolve your thinking with the game you get stuck barking back to past glories… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, thabucks said: Does he play as a DM or deep lying play maker and double pivot … You don’t know what his instructions are from Smith also … The game has moved on it fans views haven’t. Tired of these outdated descriptions of a DM from some whose football knowledge is based on a bygone era. If you think Douglas Luiz is the issue then I’m baffled … What a condescending line. All the top teams, play with players, whose main job is to stop the opposition attacking their defence, now no one is saying that skill set has to be limited to that alone, the really good ones can launch attacks after winning the ball back, too. You can call that role what you like, DM,DLPM,Regista,Holding Midfielder, but we all know what we are getting at, we are lightweight in the centre......That job hasn't gone away, and is not likely to go away, its not a trend or a passing phase.....its a fundamental part of the game and whilst many players have to chip in, one player or two usually have the responsibility, to make sure its done. My understanding is its the 2 in 4-2-3-1.....and presently that is John McGinn and Douglas Luiz....both CM's in my view, playing as DM's or at least one of them playing as a DM. Leicester play Ndidi & Tielemans....West Ham Play Soucek & Rice....Man City play with Rodri & Fernandino....Chelsea have Jorginho.....Man U have Fred......even Brighton have Bissouma ..............can you see the difference? This rubbish about a bygone era, is your cop out, for not seeing what many of the fanbase can see.....that 2 is our weakspot, its not only supported by just about all the podcasters, Inc Pete the canadian who has a decent knowledge of the game, but all the stats, I have read support the weakness there....our players have a low rating in defending our defence. Now, I can't say, what you are interpreting during a game, but we had games where we struggled to contain opponents attacking us throught the middle, blimey, we struggled down the flank at home to Leeds......We struggle with containing raiders, and fail quite often to cut them out......Now if you are saying that has nothing to do with Dougie.....who is it to do with?.....To blame Barkley is a bit far fetched to me.....there is plenty of time on a pitch to act after he has ****ed up. Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, thabucks said: It’s getting tedious the call for an archaic mythical player who doesn’t exist anymore … Go back and watch replays of games in the past to get your fix as you won’t in the modern game … I know it’s an opinion as valid as mine, however, it’s just wrong and outdated… maybe that’s why Ty Bracey thinks VT is full of oldies as if you do not evolve your thinking with the game you get stuck barking back to past glories… It gets tedious, because you can't see it and frustration takes over and spills in to questioning mature fans, who have witnessed many fads, trends and fashions in football, yes us old farts evolve too, like you will be telling folk when you get there. Its not even and opinion, its a fact that most teams in the Prem play with the players you call obsolete, and I call defensive midifelders are a crucual part of their thinking. don't be hoodwinked by the fact they can play a bit.......good DM's can. I think your last line is comical, but also a last go at justifying your attempt at discrediting what's being said. Defensive Midfielders are real, they exist in modern football, you can touch them, and they talk back.....go and watch a game and ask another fan, they will point them out....they are not from a bygone age, sure their hairstyles might be different and get more money, their legs might be tanned.....but the fundamentals are still there, like they was seasons back. They used to be called wing backs or half Backs, either side of the centre back in a 2-3-5........2 backs, 1 centre back, 2 half backs, one doubles as a centre back and one a defensive midfielder....2 wingers, 1 centre forward, 2 inside forwards , one as a second striker and the other an attacking midfielder.....you see even the formations, no matter how they are formed, still have the fundaments in place, the basics, still have to be applied......tell Ty Bracey ( who ever they are) they might like to know. Its a simple game. Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said: You don't have to have a DM but seems an obsession on here. Our record without Barkley last season was very decent. He was the defensive issue doing nothing off the ball hmmmmm, maybe, but it doesn't negate the problem either....its just a part of the problem. You say, you don't have to have a DM, OK.......so,who does the job a DM does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TRO said: hmmmmm, maybe, but it doesn't negate the problem either....its just a part of the problem. You say, you don't have to have a DM, OK.......so,who does the job a DM does? We didn't have a DM in Liverpool 7-2 win. If you look at PL or any league usually the top 10-20 players for tackles per game in a season are DMs CMs. Buendia was 6th last season in Championship. Ings is excellent pressing from front. If Sanson comes in he's 99th percentile for pressures and successful pressures. It's the sum of all parts that means you don't have to have DM Edited August 7, 2021 by Kiwivillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keener window-cleaner said: Agree, you don't need a DM if the others do their defensive work. The way Barkley didn't track back and at times just stood still half arsed in our half was appaling to see and effects the whole team. How much did Jack defend? This is like blaming the Butler, for the horse bolting out the back. you have a defensive midfielder for a reason. Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TRO said: How much did Jack defend? This like blaming the Butler, for the horse bolting out the back. you have a defensive midfielder for a reason. 1.2 per game which was 8th in our team. Guess who was 19th with a ridiculous 0.3 tackles per game Edited August 7, 2021 by Kiwivillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 We can go around in circles, then talk about how the concept of a DM is outdated. Then go on to be shown examples of players fulfilling the roles Doug is supposed to fill, as proof that the concept is outdated. Yet the players listed as examples , as the " Modern " versions, are performing better than him, in ALL the areas used in the for/against argument... Spot the issue here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: We didn't have a DM in Liverpool 7-2 win. If you look at PL or any league usually the top 10-20 tacklers per game in a season are DMs CMs. Buendia was 6th last season in Championship. Ings is excellent pressing from front. If Sanson comes in he's 99th percentile for pressures and successful pressures. It's the sum of all parts that means you don't have to have DM As Jim Royle, would say "Hey Soft lad, we didn't need one" Hey...of course we did, but they had the night off due to our overwhelming offensive play......On the Night. so why do all the best teams have them?....i guess that question will be down to interpretation now. how many games are like the Liverpool game, that was a one off.....but McGinn and Luiz still played as I recall and one at least was still a DM. You can also play with a great DM and still lose a game, I think you are starting to miss the point. Edited August 7, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 42 minutes ago, thabucks said: It’s getting tedious the call for an archaic mythical player who doesn’t exist anymore … Go back and watch replays of games in the past to get your fix as you won’t in the modern game … I know it’s an opinion as valid as mine, however, it’s just wrong and outdated… maybe that’s why Ty Bracey thinks VT is full of oldies as if you do not evolve your thinking with the game you get stuck barking back to past glories… Fair play, would it be easier if we say, he has been shit at whatever the modern version of this modern/updated player is? Lol. Some people are so in denial, that they purposely ignore the MANY times we've said, if he was top notch at whatever he is supposed to be doing for us, there wouldn't be any stick. Do you reckon people would be upset with a Kamara, Kante type, Bissouma etc? ( Off the top of head examples ). If we could get an ALL rounder who could " control the game " etc as you're all diverting to, and it worked, that would be ok too. What was everybody, including pundits, biggest critique of the Man City lineup/setup in the Champions League final? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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