avfc1982am Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 15 hours ago, MotoMkali said: Just because we play someone in that role doesn't mean it is their natural position. That would be like saying Hutton is a left back. You can't complain about a player being crap and then say it is his fault for not being played in the same way he was at the club we signed him from. Besides wesley has had significant contributions to 8 of our 15 goals from open play which is pretty good. I hope nobody was expecting him to be Benteke. I wish he was as good as Benteke was but when Benteke played for us he was one of the 5 best strikers in the league behind suarez and aguero and on par with vardy and Kane. You can't expect every player to be that good and at least wesley isn't Joe Linton. What you on about fella? Nobody was talking about his so called natural position. The discussion was regarding how he is currently deployed. For starters how do you or even Brugge know what his natural position is until he has fully developed as a player?! What he was somewhere is not necessarily the finished article. The natural position could be a multitude of positions. The original discussion was regarding his current position and his effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Isn't every player, when it comes down to it in heart a RB? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 7 hours ago, avfc1982am said: What you on about fella? Nobody was talking about his so called natural position. The discussion was regarding how he is currently deployed. For starters how do you or even Brugge know what his natural position is until he has fully developed as a player?! What he was somewhere is not necessarily the finished article. The natural position could be a multitude of positions. The original discussion was regarding his current position and his effectiveness. Well what I'm saying is he played as a false 9 and won awards in that position got quite a few assists and goals and contributed to Brugge's success. We are playing him as a target man without much support from his teammates and he rarely receives the ball to feet. To me it makes sense he is struggling and can't seem to get into great form because he isn't playing in the position he is used to. Also wesley started off his footballing career playing as an attacking midfielder and got moved to striker so I suggest his natural position would likely be closer to a CAM than a target man ergo false 9. On top of that when we have played him as more of a false 9 we have had success like against Norwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 50 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: Well what I'm saying is he played as a false 9 and won awards in that position got quite a few assists and goals and contributed to Brugge's success. We are playing him as a target man without much support from his teammates and he rarely receives the ball to feet. To me it makes sense he is struggling and can't seem to get into great form because he isn't playing in the position he is used to. Also wesley started off his footballing career playing as an attacking midfielder and got moved to striker so I suggest his natural position would likely be closer to a CAM than a target man ergo false 9. On top of that when we have played him as more of a false 9 we have had success like against Norwich. I don’t think he is meant to even be a target man. It’s happening because we aren’t moving the ball around well enough and than having to resort to hoofing the ball up to him. He then has to battle to win it and it’s not his game. Wesley is not a target man which is why he is not playing like one. He just looks isolated all the time because in most cases we just aren’t as good as the opposition so end up on the back foot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 21/11/2019 at 21:45, avfc1982am said: I'm not talking about how he should be deployed or what he was at Brugge. Only what he is at Villa. He, imo plays exactly the same position and role as Tammy did. The central figure up front in a 4-3-3. Now whether he plays the role differently or has different attributes has absolutely nothing to do with my point in principle. Whether there are slight adjustments to the way Smith and Co expect him to play that role I would believe are more down to his ability and not them replacing the system or pattern of play from last year. Smith has even said the players brought in will fit the system not the other way around. So on that basis his role is the same as it was last year with a different CF. IMO he doesn't drop deeper than Tammy did either, Tammy just made the ground up quicker when breaking because he is more pacier and more of a goal getter. I cannot believe either that Smith would under any circumstances be expecting the wider players ie, Ghazi or Trez for example to be hitting double figures this season relieving Wes of his duties in front of goal. We aren't Liverpool and cleary an indication of this was moving Grealish from a more central position to get him closer to Wes out wide where he has more influence in the final third linking with the CF(Wes) and creating opportunities for him and others. If you do play a false 9 then you need to serious goalscorers either side that can cut in at will and damage teams. I don't see Smith being naïve enough as to expect this from our current wide players tbh. Plus as you even said if Wes is as some indicate a 'False 9' then Smith would've been looking at an El Ghazi/Firmino type player and not the physical stature of Wes anyway. Of course he has other duties in the role he plays than say traditional 'stay up top' CF. The point is he though he is deployed as a CF Just like Kane and Tammy and numerous other CF's. FWIW I'm not hating on him or slating him for the sake of whinging. The reality is he does need time and does possess the attributes of a player that could do very well in the PL if it clicks for him. My opinion of him though currently is that he is nowhere near that place and unless his workrate and desire to smash it pick up he'll struggle to get there anytime soon. good post. The one thing we are all unsure about is.....will he progress to what we want him to be....I hope so, but I have no idea.....speculation, is what it is, and no more. I guess Traore has to some degree improved and we possibly let him go too soon.....circumstances can sometimes make you look foolish....years of decline, dropped us in to these holes. Personally, I think Wes and us staying up is 2 different things.....He doesn't have to score 20 goals a season, for us to stay up.....He does need to improve his game and become more of a nuisance and preoccupy opposing centre halves. The challenges and the concerns about us getting points is more than Wes IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted November 23, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted November 23, 2019 Big Wes has shaved his bonce! Would love him to score against NUFC on Monday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 22 hours ago, avfc1982am said: What you on about fella? Nobody was talking about his so called natural position. The discussion was regarding how he is currently deployed. For starters how do you or even Brugge know what his natural position is until he has fully developed as a player?! What he was somewhere is not necessarily the finished article. The natural position could be a multitude of positions. The original discussion was regarding his current position and his effectiveness. I think a lot of us were talking about his natural position, hence the confusion. Ultimately, where a manager tells a player to play isn't always where he ends up playing - and that's where "natural" position comes into it. Grealish at LW is a totally different tactical proposition from El Ghazi at LW, because regardless of what it says on the team sheet, or what you tell them to do, Grealish is going to play deeper and narrower and than El Ghazi. All we're saying is that Wesley's instinct is to come much deeper (and stay there for the duration of an attack) than a typical striker. That's not necessarily a bad thing if you do it well, but clearly in most games this season it hasn't really worked out for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Call me crazy, but I think Wesley scores against Newcastle. May put money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said: Call me crazy, but I think Wesley scores against Newcastle. May put money on it. Rubbish! What does Theresa May know about football? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa4europe Posted November 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2019 If you criticise him tonight then I don't think you understand what he's doing for us, dominated their line giving others acres to play in Shame he didn't score to round off a good game 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) He should have scored but I thought he did ok tonight. Was a constant nuisance and although he comes deep too often we are countering that my Anwer dropping in to the middle and it’s working. Edited November 25, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr_Pangloss Posted November 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) Have to say I'm rapidly losing my patience. His hold up play was a mixed bag, very good at times but abject other times. The worst bit was the lack of runs and rarely looking to make a run in behind. His miss was the icing on the cake, absolute sitter. He literally needs to not play for a month and learn how to be a striker, sadly there's no other options. Desperately need a striker in Jan. Edited November 25, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: He should have scored but I thought he did ok tonight. Was a constant nuisance He really wasn't. He put himself around. He worked better than he normally does, but a nuisance? Hah. But to be fair this highlights how little that's expected of him. Edited November 25, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Reading a few pther football forums now and all three I've read now say and I paraphrase "If Villa even had a half decent striker this would be a cricket score". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 he was better than Joelinton I still don't see whatever the scouts must have seen to make us shell out that much money on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, villa4europe said: If you criticise him tonight then I don't think you understand what he's doing for us, dominated their line giving others acres to play in Shame he didn't score to round off a good game People really will find any excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted November 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2019 I think it's proper to give a verdict at this point. I don't rate Wes as a striker at all. He has no instinct to be in scoring positions, he's never in the box when he should be. He may score a couple gifts, but I am so disappointed with him. As for all the good things some people think he does ... it's nothing special. I'm afraid we're stuck with him until next season. January is very seldom a good time to make a big trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: He really wasn't. He put himself around. He worked better than he normally does, but a nuisance? Hah. But to be fair this highlights how little that's expected of him. I would actually argue that the criticism after today highlights how too much is actually expected of him. He battled and created space for midfielders all game in my opinion. I think he has been poor in a lot of games but today he was fine. I do think he should have scored though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I thought he was great tonight personally. Gutted he didn't score. If us Villa fans give Wesley stick I dread to think how much that sack of shit up front for Newcastle gets. Jesus Christ he actually is horrendous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) Oh god, I'm gonna end up being one of the Wesley defenders now. I've become what I've always hated. Was decent, on another day could've bagged a goal. The first time I've felt like I've seen actual false 9 play from him, or something like that. He definitely contributed by dragging defenders away towards him for other players to take advantage. Not the best performance, but aside from missing the sitter, I'm not all that disappointed him this time. Work rate is actually there too which is a plus. Edit: Also whoscored lists him as winning 6 aerial duels. Like, how? Edited November 25, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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