Wesley Moraes

[sne]

17 minutes ago, Spoony said:

Congrats to Wesley. But a pretty big statement on the quality of the current Brazil team that he’s anywhere near it. I guess he’s good at falling over and the Brazilians like that. 

It was a very weakened squad.

Lots of players rested, no players from the domestic league as they playing this week.

Only enough big names in the squad to please the UAE overlords who are paying their FA for the 2 exhibition games.

Wesley is probably around 15th choice or something like that for them.

[MotoMkali]

4 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Well he plays DEEP alot of the time here to help out, which is another reason why when he actually has on OK performance where he works hard, it goes unseen.

Hard to judge him as  a"proper" striker as circumstance and his playing style dictates differently.

I was very frustrated last match seeing how deep he was, and I only took real notice when he made a great crossfield ball.

Like "Great ball Wesley, but WTF are you doing all the way back there"?

To me he doesnt play deep often enough. He is very good if you play the ball to his feet and playing it back to someone else. For a player of his size he has excellent vision. When we have played well he has actually dropped deep more often allowing us to create freely because it drags a defender out of position or gives us an extra man in midfield and allows you to overwhelm the defense. It is what barca did once they moved Messi into the centre. 

[Keyblade]

5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Well he plays DEEP alot of the time here to help out, which is another reason why when he actually has on OK performance where he works hard, it goes unseen.

Hard to judge him as  a"proper" striker as circumstance and his playing style dictates differently.

I was very frustrated last match seeing how deep he was, and I only took real notice when he made a great crossfield ball.

Like "Great ball Wesley, but WTF are you doing all the way back there"?

The problem is, people look at his frame and assume he's a target man. He's more of a false 9. He can link play well, but only when it's to feet as he obviously struggles with controlling high balls in this league at the moment. His goal-scoring record also isn't too bad for someone who likes to play so deep. 16 goals and 10 assists in ~45 games in all competitions (including CL) last season is not too shabby at all. Currently at 4 goals and 1 assist in 12 games for us, so he's right on track.

[Delphinho123]

24 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The problem is, people look at his frame and assume he's a target man. He's more of a false 9. He can link play well, but only when it's to feet as he obviously struggles with controlling high balls in this league at the moment. His goal-scoring record also isn't too bad for someone who likes to play so deep. 16 goals and 10 assists in ~45 games in all competitions (including CL) last season is not too shabby at all. Currently at 4 goals and 1 assist in 12 games for us, so he's right on track.

A false 9? He’s not a false 9 at all. He’s just a shit no.9. Stop making excuses for him not being able to control, run with or head the ball. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Delphinho123

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

A false 9? He’s not a false 9 at all. He’s just a shit no.9. Stop making excuses for him not being able to control, run with or head the ball. 

He's a false 9, sorry. That's how he was described as by Brugge fans. It's very obvious from the way he plays with us as well. 

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

The problem is, people look at his frame and assume he's a target man. He's more of a false 9. He can link play well, but only when it's to feet as he obviously struggles with controlling high balls in this league at the moment. His goal-scoring record also isn't too bad for someone who likes to play so deep. 16 goals and 10 assists in ~45 games in all competitions (including CL) last season is not too shabby at all. Currently at 4 goals and 1 assist in 12 games for us, so he's right on track.

He'd actually be on 12/13 goals and 3 assists if he goes on at this rate, so not really on track compared to previously. Still decent numbers though.

On the false 9 thing, I think its a bit of a strawman because no one who's watched him play at this point considers him a target man. That doesn't change the fact that we are often forced to play him as a target man because we can't get the ball up the field normally.  Also a false 9 has good dribbling ability, good short passing and link up play as well as good vision. I have not seen Wesley showcase any of these traits for us. Yes, even the good link up play that some people swear he's good at which I don't seem to ever see considering he seems to rarely be involved in our attacks and is isolated as hell. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[useless]

Lots of strikers like to drop deep and link up play but they aren't necessarily playing as a 'false 9', a false 9 is more when you don't name any strikers on your team sheet at all, but one of the players, usually a winger, has the responsibility of doing much of the work that a striker would normally do, or at least that's what it used to be, I think Spalletti made the tactic popular at Roma. Whilst not identical in their styles I think Wesley is quite similar to someone like Firminho in the way he likes to drop deep, but can also play like a traditional striker in and around the box.

[TRO]

On 15/11/2019 at 12:46, tomav84 said:

i would absolutely give my right bollock to sign giroud. would be affordable too. but goes against the transfer policy within the club...so no chance it would happen

edit - he's only 33...thought he was even older...we'd get 2-3 seasons out of him

edit-edit - some big names linked to him...dortmund etc...never mind, was a nice thought while it lasted

Just curious.....who's the left bollock reserved for?

[Keyblade]

51 minutes ago, useless said:

Lots of strikers like to drop deep and link up play but they aren't necessarily playing as a 'false 9', a false 9 is more when you don't name any strikers on your team sheet at all, but one of the players, usually a winger, has the responsibility of doing much of the work that a striker would normally do, or at least that's what it used to be, I think Spalletti made the tactic popular at Roma. Whilst not identical in their styles I think Wesley is quite similar to someone like Firminho in the way he likes to drop deep, but can also play like a traditional striker in and around the box.

Yeah this is what I was getting at. He's not a Fabregas for Spain type false 9 but he's also not a Diego Costa type player either despite being expected to play in that style. He's nowhere near the level of Firmino but he's definitely more in that mould. He has good vision and a surprisingly good range of pass and plays much better when the ball is played to his feet rather than at his head or chest, where he's actually pretty bad for the most part (still have hope there after the Everton performance though). I get we're a newly promoted side so we can benefit more from a target man who can hold the ball up but it's not his fault we bought him and nobody else to help him out.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

On 16/11/2019 at 20:10, Spoony said:

Congrats to Wesley. But a pretty big statement on the quality of the current Brazil team that he’s anywhere near it. I guess he’s good at falling over and the Brazilians like that. 

Maybe they are looking for a Julio "Baptista" type?

Edited November 18, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Zatman]

On 16/11/2019 at 18:10, Spoony said:

Congrats to Wesley. But a pretty big statement on the quality of the current Brazil team that he’s anywhere near it. I guess he’s good at falling over and the Brazilians like that. 

True but Firmino, Jesus and fit and not acting like a diva then Neymar is a good forward line to choose from

Edited November 18, 2019 by Zatman

[Sam-AVFC]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Maybe they are looking for a Julio "Baptista" type?

Why the quote marks, isn't that his actual name?!

I think Brazil have just been better historically at giving people a few minutes here and there to integrate them so if they do keep improving it's easier to step into the national set up. Maybe a symptom of the fact it's so hard to judge the ability of players in their domestic league against those playing in Europe. It's definitely something England could be much better at, but I should probably take that whining elsewhere.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Why the quote marks, isn't that his actual name?!

I think Brazil have just been better historically at giving people a few minutes here and there to integrate them so if they do keep improving it's easier to step into the national set up. Maybe a symptom of the fact it's so hard to judge the ability of players in their domestic league against those playing in Europe. It's definitely something England could be much better at, but I should probably take that whining elsewhere.

Back in late 90s/early 2000s Brazil would cap a lot of average domestic players to raise the transfer value when getting a transfer to Europe.

Celtic signed Rafael Scheidt for 5 million and allegedly when he asked MON what type of defender he was looking for he told him "a defender that isnt you"

[Troglodyte]

Wesley is not a 'false 9'. I'd argue that no-one simply is a false 9, in the sense that it's their natural position - or that they're developed to play that role above all others - but either way, although he drops deep and has sprayed a few passes around, Wesley isn't one.

[MotoMkali]

5 hours ago, Troglodyte said:

Wesley is not a 'false 9'. I'd argue that no-one simply is a false 9, in the sense that it's their natural position - or that they're developed to play that role above all others - but either way, although he drops deep and has sprayed a few passes around, Wesley isn't one.

Wesley 100% is. A false 9 is a natural position now it is a hybridization between an attacking midfielder and a striker and seeing as wesley said that when he first started playing football professionally he was an attacking midfielder I would say that is the very definition of a false 9. They need to drop deep receive the ball to their feet and have good movement around them. Without that 2nd part it doesn't work which is why Liverpool struggle without Salah because his off the ball movement is the best in the prem and It drags defenders all over the place. With us all 3 of our central midfielders are quite static and don't show for the ball trez and el ghazi are inconsistent and aren't great at moving off the ball. Wes has looked good when Jack is playing closer to him because Jack forces players to move around him which creates gaps which wesley can pass through. Our other players need to do it more and it is honestly our worst attribute and why we struggle to keep the ball as much as we do.

[Keener window-cleaner]

On 16/11/2019 at 20:16, Delphinho123 said:

A false 9? He’s not a false 9 at all. He’s just a shit no.9. Stop making excuses for him not being able to control, run with or head the ball. 

I think being young player of the year in Belgium, scouts with a proven track record recommending us to buy him for over £20M, a manager who we trust playing him every week and getting called up to the Brazil squad would suggest otherwise. 

[Tomaszk]

17 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

...scouts with a proven track record recommending us to buy him for over £20M...

Not sure our our scouts have any previous record? They're Suso's two contacts I thought? This is their first job and the summer was their first big test.

Wesley doesn't look anything like a £20m player.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Tomaszk

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I think being young player of the year in Belgium, scouts with a proven track record recommending us to buy him for over £20M, a manager who we trust playing him every week and getting called up to the Brazil squad would suggest otherwise. 

The first 2 just tells us that he was great before. But insisting a player is great right now because of how he played previously in another league and not looking at how he is actually currently playing for us is silly. There have been many players who looked masterful at their old club but for one reason or another are unable to replicate anything of their old form at their new club.

Smith plays him every week because we don't have much option. 

Anyone legitimately thinking Wesley's form is great because he got a call up to the Brazil national team is insane. Its not hard to imagine that whilst thinking who to call up, they found this 20million plus pound striker who seems to be scoring some goals in the PL and thought maybe they should bring him on for a bit to see how good he is for them. Plus, I'm not that familiar with the Brazilian national team, but I don't think they have another striker with Wesley's size and they probably thought he'd be useful to play if they wanted to try the targetman route.(as to which they'll soon realize he is not great at that)

[MotoMkali]

7 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

The first 2 just tells us that he was great before. But insisting a player is great right now because of how he played previously in another league and not looking at how he is actually currently playing for us is silly. There have been many players who looked masterful at their old club but for one reason or another are unable to replicate anything of their old form at their new club.

Smith plays him every week because we don't have much option. 

Anyone legitimately thinking Wesley's form is great because he got a call up to the Brazil national team is insane. Its not hard to imagine that whilst thinking who to call up, they found this 20million plus pound striker who seems to be scoring some goals in the PL and thought maybe they should bring him on for a bit to see how good he is for them. Plus, I'm not that familiar with the Brazilian national team, but I don't think they have another striker with Wesley's size and they probably thought he'd be useful to play if they wanted to try the targetman route.(as to which they'll soon realize he is not great at that)

Wesley is not a target man and the sooner some of our fans realize that the better. Seriously how hard is it to understand that when wesley receives the ball to his feet 9/10 he keeps the ball and often helps create good chances. And 9/10 out of 10 if you randomly kick a ball to a defender on the other side of the pitch of course wesley isn't going to win it. I still haven't seen a long ball from open play that I think wesley has a prayer of winning and probably 60% of the goals kicks are so poor I don't think he could win them either l. 

[sne]

51 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Wesley is not a target man and the sooner some of our fans realize that the better. Seriously how hard is it to understand that when wesley receives the ball to his feet 9/10 he keeps the ball and often helps create good chances. And 9/10 out of 10 if you randomly kick a ball to a defender on the other side of the pitch of course wesley isn't going to win it. I still haven't seen a long ball from open play that I think wesley has a prayer of winning and probably 60% of the goals kicks are so poor I don't think he could win them either l.