villalad21 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) If he is a false 9 then why the f*** did we buy him and play him like a lone striker? No shit sherlock he's been bad if he's not comfortable in the position. This just makes me more worried if true. I literally had no idea he was a false 9. If that is the case i've been highly unfair to him. Edited November 20, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, villalad21 said: If he is a false 9 then why the f*** did we buy him and play him like a lone striker? No shit sherlock he's been bad if he's not comfortable in the position. This just makes me more worried if true. I literally had no idea he was a false 9. If that is the case i've been highly unfair to him. Most lone strikers these days are not in the team to score a ton of goals and I think that's the mistake many on here or in the Villa fan base are making. Wesley's main role will be to provide any support by dropping into midfield and allowing our incoming attacking midfielders and wingers to proceed beyond him. Of course if Wesley can grab some goals in the process as well as being an up front supportive striker then that's fantastic. Wesley I think has everything to be an excellent false 9, he does drop out of his frontal position in midfield a fair bit and does play some nice passes. He has on occasions caused a number of headaches to defences and he needs to keep that up. I don't see Wesley bagging tons of goals, in fact I'd much rather him continue to be effective at causing headaches and bagging the odd goal every couple of games. If we dropped the two wingers or at most brought them more central I could see support to Wes increasing and the support in which he can dish out. Often when Wes has the ball he's been isolated, closed down quickly and it's partly due to the fact we do not have enough players near for support for the cross to them or so they can cross to him. Our wingers are running down the flanks so they arnt necessarily in Wesley's area while he's needing help to keep the ball that's been sent to him from our defence by our defence, midfield or whoever. I think when our players are charging forward after we've been backed up for some time, it may help if our wingers offer central support instead of focusing on getting back out to the flank. If Wes remains in there half while were backed up in our defence it's very difficult to get the ball to a lone striker and expect him to keep it till support arrives. Nearly every time we've managed to send the ball to Wes to hold onto it while the rest move on up he has been relieved of it and for a good many reasons. One mainl reason is he's being swarmed, and our players arnt getting in supportive positions fast enough. Another reason he's new to this harsh frantic league and only world class false 9 would be ok under that stress because they come from every angle to close him down and it takes something special to out manuvere two to three players coming at you from all angles. It's very easy for many to look at Wes and see he's the one who's at fault for either not scoring or not being there to support others, but what about the rest of the team when they arnt there for Wes or are not in there positions ready to receive when they should of been. Wes in my eyes is doing a decent job for what's been placed on his shoulders, yes there are aspects of his game I'd like to see improved, less being on the floor and more running to relieve the ball from opposition. I'm sure he will better himself over time and if we buy one or two more strikers that would mean we certainly have time to define Wesley into the type of false 9 style he looks every bit he is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killeen30 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 16/11/2019 at 20:24, TRO said: Just curious.....who's the left bollock reserved for? Defoe mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dave-R said: Most lone strikers these days are not in the team to score a ton of goals and I think that's the mistake many on here or in the Villa fan base are making. Wesley's main role will be to provide any support by dropping into midfield and allowing our incoming attacking midfielders and wingers to proceed beyond him. Of course if Wesley can grab some goals in the process as well as being an up front supportive striker then that's fantastic. Wesley I think has everything to be an excellent false 9, he does drop out of his frontal position in midfield a fair bit and does play some nice passes. He has on occasions caused a number of headaches to defences and he needs to keep that up. I don't see Wesley bagging tons of goals, in fact I'd much rather him continue to be effective at causing headaches and bagging the odd goal every couple of games. If we dropped the two wingers or at most brought them more central I could see support to Wes increasing and the support in which he can dish out. Often when Wes has the ball he's been isolated, closed down quickly and it's partly due to the fact we do not have enough players near for support for the cross to them or so they can cross to him. Our wingers are running down the flanks so they arnt necessarily in Wesley's area while he's needing help to keep the ball that's been sent to him from our defence by our defence, midfield or whoever. I think when our players are charging forward after we've been backed up for some time, it may help if our wingers offer central support instead of focusing on getting back out to the flank. If Wes remains in there half while were backed up in our defence it's very difficult to get the ball to a lone striker and expect him to keep it till support arrives. Nearly every time we've managed to send the ball to Wes to hold onto it while the rest move on up he has been relieved of it and for a good many reasons. One mainl reason is he's being swarmed, and our players arnt getting in supportive positions fast enough. Another reason he's new to this harsh frantic league and only world class false 9 would be ok under that stress because they come from every angle to close him down and it takes something special to out manuvere two to three players coming at you from all angles. It's very easy for many to look at Wes and see he's the one who's at fault for either not scoring or not being there to support others, but what about the rest of the team when they arnt there for Wes or are not in there positions ready to receive when they should of been. Wes in my eyes is doing a decent job for what's been placed on his shoulders, yes there are aspects of his game I'd like to see improved, less being on the floor and more running to relieve the ball from opposition. I'm sure he will better himself over time and if we buy one or two more strikers that would mean we certainly have time to define Wesley into the type of false 9 style he looks every bit he is. We aren't playing him as a false 9. By the looks of it Wes is more suited in a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 system. No shit he is struggling. He is expected to do something which is not his game. I have a lot more sympathy for the guy now, i didn't realize he was a false 9. Edited November 20, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 15/11/2019 at 12:46, tomav84 said: i would absolutely give my right bollock to sign giroud. would be affordable too. but goes against the transfer policy within the club...so no chance it would happen edit - he's only 33...thought he was even older...we'd get 2-3 seasons out of him edit-edit - some big names linked to him...dortmund etc...never mind, was a nice thought while it lasted Would myself if we were to sign a 30+ striker would sign Kensuke Nagai, he's 30 no11 forward, 11 goals, 3 assists drops to midfield to allow others to score. Although he's not been in the prem I think he's the type of player were looking for, he's got work rate on a tripple A level, pace which is bonkers, eye for a goal and he never stops and could be a decent price from FC Tokyo. What really makes my mouth water about him is how he catches opposition off guard and leaves them in his trail, his passing is also sweet. FC Tokyo are at top of there league and a fair price may prize him from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, villalad21 said: We aren't playing him as a false 9. By the looks of it Wes is more suited in a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 system. No shit he is struggling. He is expected to do something which is not his game. I have a lot more sympathy for the guy now, i didn't realize he was a false 9. At his last club he'd shoot from distance right?? his game at Villa is completely different, if he's playing like a false9 or partly like one despite the fact were not playing him like one then we may as well play him like an F9 and utilise him correctly. He free roams alot, doesn't he, is that something Smith and have the coaches told him to do so?? He could do what Tammy did and pick up on players making mistakes or try harass more but don't think his physique could handle that all game because he has a bigger frame than TamTam and has more muscle too. One thing Wes has to do is use his strength more, he's like a giant to some defences and he could do damage. I do feel we were always missing a little speed freak, with the way we play I always thought Maupay would of worked for us, I reckon that's why I hope we bring this Ranger striker in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, Dave-R said: One thing Wes has to do is use his strength more, he's like a giant to some defences and he could do damage. I understand this point but there are tall strikers that doesn't regard themselves as target men. Lukaku is a good example. Lukaku is not good at hold up play. He is mainly a poacher, a fox in the box and Man Utd used him wrong. I'd like to see Wesley playing behind an actual number 9. I think we would see a much better Wesley. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 6 hours ago, MotoMkali said: Wesley is not a target man and the sooner some of our fans realize that the better. Seriously how hard is it to understand that when wesley receives the ball to his feet 9/10 he keeps the ball and often helps create good chances. And 9/10 out of 10 if you randomly kick a ball to a defender on the other side of the pitch of course wesley isn't going to win it. I still haven't seen a long ball from open play that I think wesley has a prayer of winning and probably 60% of the goals kicks are so poor I don't think he could win them either l. I didn't say he was a targetman. I said Brazil might think he is one just looking at his size. I also don't think any of our fans here actually think he's a targetman either so its a strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dave-R said: Most lone strikers these days are not in the team to score a ton of goals and I think that's the mistake many on here or in the Villa fan base are making. Wesley's main role will be to provide any support by dropping into midfield and allowing our incoming attacking midfielders and wingers to proceed beyond him. Of course if Wesley can grab some goals in the process as well as being an up front supportive striker then that's fantastic. Wesley I think has everything to be an excellent false 9, he does drop out of his frontal position in midfield a fair bit and does play some nice passes. He has on occasions caused a number of headaches to defences and he needs to keep that up. I don't see Wesley bagging tons of goals, in fact I'd much rather him continue to be effective at causing headaches and bagging the odd goal every couple of games. If we dropped the two wingers or at most brought them more central I could see support to Wes increasing and the support in which he can dish out. Often when Wes has the ball he's been isolated, closed down quickly and it's partly due to the fact we do not have enough players near for support for the cross to them or so they can cross to him. Our wingers are running down the flanks so they arnt necessarily in Wesley's area while he's needing help to keep the ball that's been sent to him from our defence by our defence, midfield or whoever. I think when our players are charging forward after we've been backed up for some time, it may help if our wingers offer central support instead of focusing on getting back out to the flank. If Wes remains in there half while were backed up in our defence it's very difficult to get the ball to a lone striker and expect him to keep it till support arrives. Nearly every time we've managed to send the ball to Wes to hold onto it while the rest move on up he has been relieved of it and for a good many reasons. One mainl reason is he's being swarmed, and our players arnt getting in supportive positions fast enough. Another reason he's new to this harsh frantic league and only world class false 9 would be ok under that stress because they come from every angle to close him down and it takes something special to out manuvere two to three players coming at you from all angles. It's very easy for many to look at Wes and see he's the one who's at fault for either not scoring or not being there to support others, but what about the rest of the team when they arnt there for Wes or are not in there positions ready to receive when they should of been. Wes in my eyes is doing a decent job for what's been placed on his shoulders, yes there are aspects of his game I'd like to see improved, less being on the floor and more running to relieve the ball from opposition. I'm sure he will better himself over time and if we buy one or two more strikers that would mean we certainly have time to define Wesley into the type of false 9 style he looks every bit he is. He doesn't reall support the team all that much either though. He's had to date, one assist. Most of our goals without him scoring just bypass him. I don't see him bullying defenders or beinva. general headache to people in defence either. Edited November 20, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: He doesn't reall support the team all that much either though. He's had to date, one assist. Most of our goals without him scoring just bypass him. I don't see him bullying defenders or beinva. general headache to people in defence either. Head. Nail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: He doesn't reall support the team all that much either though. He's had to date, one assist. Most of our goals without him scoring just bypass him. I don't see him bullying defenders or beinva. general headache to people in defence either. Jack, by far our most creative player and one of the most creative in the whole league, has just 3 assists this season. We should know better than most that the final touch before the goal isn't the be-all of creativity, although it doesn't hurt of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Jack, by far our most creative player and one of the most creative in the whole league, has just 3 assists this season. We should know better than most that the final touch before the goal isn't the be-all of creativity, although it doesn't hurt of course. Yeah that's why I added the point, most of our goals without him bypass him outright. Jack is actually involved a lot in starting our attacks, an assisster for the assisster if you will. Wesley isn't. Edited November 20, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 7 hours ago, MotoMkali said: Wesley is not a target man and the sooner some of our fans realize that the better. Seriously how hard is it to understand that when wesley receives the ball to his feet 9/10 he keeps the ball and often helps create good chances. And 9/10 out of 10 if you randomly kick a ball to a defender on the other side of the pitch of course wesley isn't going to win it. I still haven't seen a long ball from open play that I think wesley has a prayer of winning and probably 60% of the goals kicks are so poor I don't think he could win them either l. 9/10? More like 5/10. He falls over most of the time or the ball bounces off him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Yeah that's why I added the point, most of our goals without him bypass him outright. Jack is actually involved a lot in starting our attacks, an assisster for the assisster if you will. Wesley isn't. Off the top of my head, I can think of El Ghazi's goal against Everton, and Jack's goal against Brighton as goals he was integral in, and played the pass to the assister. Those 2 games plus the Norwich game where he got 2 of his goals and his assist, he was pretty good so we know there's something there. Right now, that player showing up only once every 3 or 4 games isn't good enough but that's why we took a punt on him for £22m from the Belgian league. So we can develop him to the point where he's performing like that consistently...at which point he'll be worth way more than £22m. The coaching staff seem to be sticking by him and the Brazilian national team seem to believe there's something there as well. It's kind of odd that it's the Villa fans showing the least faith in the lad, only 12 games into the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Killeen30 said: Defoe mate. should have had him, years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Off the top of my head, I can think of El Ghazi's goal against Everton, and Jack's goal against Brighton as goals he was integral in, and played the pass to the assister. Those 2 games plus the Norwich game where he got 2 of his goals and his assist, he was pretty good so we know there's something there. Right now, that player showing up only once every 3 or 4 games isn't good enough but that's why we took a punt on him for £22m from the Belgian league. So we can develop him to the point where he's performing like that consistently...at which point he'll be worth way more than £22m. The coaching staff seem to be sticking by him and the Brazilian national team seem to believe there's something there as well. It's kind of odd that it's the Villa fans showing the least faith in the lad, only 12 games into the season. The Villa lads actually have to watch him play every week. I doubt the Brazilian national team have actually looked that deeply at Wesley as people seem to think they have. Its no secret Wesley has the credentials and phsical attributes and he is playing in one of the top leagues in Europe, so them wanting to try him out for a while is understandable. The coaching staff are sticking by him because the alternatives don't seem that great and they're hardly gonna say he's been very poor for us when confidence has been vital. If we have Morelos or another definitely solid striker in out team, I think you might see the true level of faith the coaching staff truly have for him. Edited November 20, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) I think there is a tendency at times to over complicate things...inadvertently as it might appear. The strikers that occupy the top of the leader boards are there for a reason....no matter what country it is or what year or what era. They don't bitch about service or look for excuses.....They find a way of scoring, they eke out opportunities, they seize moments, they bully opponents in to mistakes, they anticipate moves, they read the game, they take chances, they chase lost causes to disrupt, they attack the spaces. That's just some of what they do. Edited November 20, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: The Villa lads actually have to watch him play every week. I doubt the Brazilian national team have actually looked that deeply at Wesley as people seem to think they have. Its no secret Wesley has the credentials and phsical attributes and he is playing in one of the top leagues in Europe, so them wanting to try him out for a while is understandable. The coaching staff are sticking by him because the alternatives don't seem that great and they're hardly gonna say he's been very poor for us when confidence has been vital. If we have Morelos or another definitely solid striker in out team, I think you might see the true level of faith the coaching staff truly have for him. I guess the 22 mill spent has something to do with it too. We can't keep simply writing off strikers and expect owners to keep filling the purse....billionaires or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, villalad21 said: I understand this point but there are tall strikers that doesn't regard themselves as target men. Lukaku is a good example. Lukaku is not good at hold up play. He is mainly a poacher, a fox in the box and Man Utd used him wrong. I'd like to see Wesley playing behind an actual number 9. I think we would see a much better Wesley. Its hard to convince others though isn't it, when you have the attributes. .....its like a pretty girl, who always stays in or a black belt Karate Man, who never has a fight. Its a bit of a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, TRO said: I guess the 22 mill spent has something to do with it too. We can't keep simply writing off strikers and expect owners to keep filling the purse....billionaires or not. Sunk Cost Fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. Playing players because you invested a lot of money into them is not logical, despite how it may seem. Only look at their on field performances and their potential, not how much they cost in wages and how much money it cost to bring them to the club. Not saying Wesley shouldn't be played, just putting the point out there in general Players should not be written off in general after very few games, but that should have nothing to do with how much they cost the club. Edited November 20, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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