OutByEaster? Posted April 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: Unless it's the difference between clubs going bust or not. Ah, what the banks called austerity. You little people all give a bit back to protect us and we'll carry on as usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 2, 2020 56 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: ...Secondly, there's a lot of talk today of players taking a pay cut - which sounds lovely, but if it is just a straight pay cut, then the only group that benefit are the clubs.The clubs will pay out less, the players will lose out ... but a saving for clubs - it's taking money out of public services and putting it into the Premier league at the expense of footballers.That's not a good deal - if they announce a straightforward pay cut, it's a bad thing - that money needs to go somewhere it can do some good, not just come off club's bottoms lines. I get that, but surely the clubs are losing out, too. I mean their revenue has vanished - both gate receipts, Merch, pies, programmes, and a huge wedge of TV money - they get how much per game shown on the telly, and then more if more than 10 games are shown and so on. The hit is all round. No one gains at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 2, 2020 In terms of the season and what happens, the fairest way is to finish it, whenever. Whether that's June or December, or next year - whenever it's safe to start playing to crowds again. That's the fairest, but there are completes that might mean that's not possible. Will UEFA wait till every nation is clear before starting Euro comps for next season? If not then who goes in the Euro Telly Leagues from England? What will happen to the start and finish dates of the following season, and how will that fit with other comps - England, Euros, World Cup whatever. I guess no-one knows, and no-one wants to be the one to jump first. Voiding the season is unfair on teams who've played fewer games (in all the leagues, not just the Premier) and it's not fair on the teams in promotion places, Winning places - Liverpool etc. or Euro place challengers. The integrity of the league(s) means they have to complete. The workaround of "voting" Liverpool champions seems fair. Ditto perhaps promotion, but no relegations for teams not already down might be workable, but 5 out of 22 going down the following season, that's tough. A quarter of the teams in the league (nearly) all going down that season. If Villa was mid table, I'd be unbothered whatever was picked. If the season is ended with us having played fewer games, and then being relegated because it's declared as final placing as per now - that would be just wrong. And no doubt the relegated clubs would go lawyer mad. Virus's don't care about sport, I know, but the outcome has to be aligned to integrity and sporting fairness. Dunno. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: It's absolutely treating everyone the same. That the fallout affects clubs differently is another matter. We will have to agree to disagree then or treating everybody the same is totally different to the fairest solution Edited April 2, 2020 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: It's an interesting question - how much tax do we lose if the Spurs squad take a 20% pay cut? It's a difficult one to answer of course because how much tax they're paying will be a mystery. For example, I wonder if Jose is a PAYE employee of Spurs? If he is and he was just paying regular tax at 45%, then a 20% salary reduction of £2m per year would cost us £900,000 per annum in tax - enough to pay the furlough for 30 of the non playing staff. The only figure I could find is that PL footballers in 2016/17 paid £1.1bn in tax between them. With inflation that must be a shed load more now but at the same time there is probably some creative accounting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, blandy said: In terms of the season and what happens, the fairest way is to finish it, whenever. Whether that's June or December, or next year - whenever it's safe to start playing to crowds again. That's the fairest, but there are completes that might mean that's not possible. I’m not sure about that as squads will have changed slightly both by contracts and injuries. What happens if it starts back up in September and our final game that in the 90 min Heaton makes a game difference save, we stay up and West Ham go down. Heaton not meant to play the rest of the season but an extended season means he’s fit. Is that fair on West Ham. Or Heaton’s recover doesn’t go well and Reina has gone back to his club because they want him back (I know we have Nyland). I mean every team has likely impactful changes to their squad. Rashford scores the winning goal against us in the 94 minute when in the season he wasn’t back. Is that fair on us? You can argue it’s just tough and we play with what we have but the longer football is out, the less fair it is to finish the season off. Any solution is not going to be fair to some though so I don’t know what the answer is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: The only figure I could find is that PL footballers in 2016/17 paid £1.1bn in tax between them. With inflation that must be a shed load more now but at the same time there is probably some creative accounting too. What’s the higher tax rate? What’s the total wage bill for all Premier League clubs? At the end of the day their wages are coming from gate money and tv money so us people are paying their wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, nick76 said: I’m not sure about that as squads will have changed slightly both by contracts and injuries. What happens if it starts back up in September and our final game that in the 90 min Heaton makes a game difference save, we stay up and West Ham go down. Heaton not meant to play the rest of the season but an extended season means he’s fit. Is that fair on West Ham. Or Heaton’s recover doesn’t go well and Reina has gone back to his club because they want him back (I know we have Nyland). I mean every team has likely impactful changes to their squad. Rashford scores the winning goal against us in the 94 minute when in the season he wasn’t back. Is that fair on us? You can argue it’s just tough and we play with what we have but the longer football is out, the less fair it is to finish the season off. Any solution is not going to be fair to some though so I don’t know what the answer is. 1/4 of the players in La Liga or Serie A are on loan or contracts expire on 30th June. Premier League might be less but still jsut a major inconvenience 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, nick76 said: I’m not sure about that as squads will have changed slightly both by contracts and injuries. What happens if it starts back up in September and our final game that in the 90 min Heaton makes a game difference save, we stay up and West Ham go down. Heaton not meant to play the rest of the season but an extended season means he’s fit. Is that fair on West Ham. Or Heaton’s recover doesn’t go well and Reina has gone back to his club because they want him back (I know we have Nyland). I mean every team has likely impactful changes to their squad. Rashford scores the winning goal against us in the 94 minute when in the season he wasn’t back. Is that fair on us? You can argue it’s just tough and we play with what we have but the longer football is out, the less fair it is to finish the season off. Any solution is not going to be fair to some though so I don’t know what the answer is. Could say that for any team tbf, Jack Wilshere could even get himself fit for one West Ham game and score the winner and they stay up by a 1 point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Unless it's all wrapped up by June 30th I don't see how the league finishes. Once contracts finish a whole new can of worms is opened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2, 2020 6 hours ago, PaulC said: 1. Complete the season 2. Cancel the season but let the results stand, no teams relegated, Leeds and West Brom promoted 3 season cancelled results and positinns stand 4 season voided, all stats wiped off the record 1. At least six weeks away from that being possible without endangering life. Then 9/10 games to play in a very short space of time. Would be behind closed doors too. It's fair but hard to see how it can happen. 2. So more like end the season here, results stand so Liverpool get the title they deserve but we don't get screwed by going down with a game in hand? Fulham might have something to say about that though. I like it, temporary 22 team league, not insurmountable challenges but still ntoa straightforward thing to get all parties to agree on, including TV, EFL, PL, PFA etc. 3. End season and the tabel stays as is? That's not going to happen, we'd have to have the chance of playing our game in hand surely at least? 4. Definitely an option. TV big problem here though, Liverpool should be champions in this case like 2. Same thing really only no promotion from the football league to the premier league. 2 is possibly the best solution, or some sort of middle ground between 2 and 4, it's a mental situation and looking for a perfect solution is the enemy of a good solution. The FA and the Football League need to grow some balls and mke a decision and face the consequences really. They make the rules at the end of the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Flying all teams over to China and finishing the season there eh? I had Qatar but the idea is just as stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted April 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, sne said: Flying all teams over to China and finishing the season there eh? I had Qatar but the idea is just as stupid. Yep, that appears to be the Option 5 that was missed off the earlier list: play a bunch of football games in China. Unbelievable.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 People should remember it's not just player contracts that change on June 30th. This will also affect sponsors, kit manufacturers, advertisers in general. Everything contractual and football related runs from 1st July to 30th June. It might not seem a big deal a team playing in Kappa for 2/3rds of the season but Nike for the last 1/3rd, but it will absolutely be a big deal to Kappa and Nike that have committed millions to those deals, especially as the latter is highly unlikely to have kit designs all done and distributed in the short time before games potentially start again. Having W88 on the shirt now but what if Bet365 have taken over from July? Can that even be changed mid season. I just can't see anything happening after June 30th, that's why I think they'll void it. And again, if the season cannot be completed, voiding it is the only way to realistically avoid lawsuits all round. It'll annoy teams for sure, but no-one has technically or legally achieved anything yet, so they wouldn't have any grounds to sue. Once you start throwing promotions and relegation and European places around it opens up a huge can of worms to every team that doesn't get awarded anything when they potentially might. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 2, 2020 Watford are in an unusual difficulty - they've got their number one and number two goalkeepers out of contract on 1st July. There seems to be the idea that you can just adjust these contracts or just force the players to play the extra games - in practice that's not possible - you can prevent them playing elsewhere, delay the transfer window and not let anyone sign new players for the last bit of the season, but you can't force those out of contract to continue. Ben Foster is still a decent keeper, and he's got bags of experience - if he's found that "Rob Green" dream contract - three years of good money to back up a top goalkeeper at a big club - why would he risk that by playing for Watford? At worst, he'd be looking for someone to insure him for that three years of money and most likely he'd just sit if out. Heurelho Gomes is 39, he might want to retire - if he does, then why would he continue to play for Watford - let's say he's on £25k a week - why carry on at that money - especially if Watford have no Foster and can't sign anyone - what if he asks for £25k a week and a single one off payment of £2m? Do Watford just give it to him, or do they end up facing a crucial final period of the season with their third keeper? Is that fair on Watford? It's one position at one club - negotiating all of these things at clubs across Europe would be an immense feat, it'd be chaos. I still think that if the clock ticks to the 30th June - finishing the season goes out of the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, weedman said: It might not seem a big deal a team playing in Kappa for 2/3rds of the season but Nike for the last 1/3rd, but it will absolutely be a big deal to Kappa and Nike that have committed millions to those deals, especially as the latter is highly unlikely to have kit designs all done and distributed in the short time before games potentially start again. Having W88 on the shirt now but what if Bet365 have taken over from July? Can that even be changed mid season. Think of Liverpool - they've spent the last few years in New Balance and are changing to Nike following an acrimonious court case - if they play the last three games of the season in Nike shirts, do Nike pay the £5m bonus in the contract for winning the title? Do New Balance pay nothing? Those things are unlikely to be covered in the contracts because the contracts will assume a season ends on the 30th June. Again, it'd be chaotic - and it'd be the kind of chaotic that requires expensive, time consuming litigation. It's another reason why the 30th June is to my mind a hard deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Also thinking of the differences in terms of countries currently dealing with the virus, for example we are at different times and peaks etc. A date might be set for one country to start playing football again but then another might take months before that's even thought about....it's why voiding it seems the only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted April 3, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2020 9 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Think of Liverpool - they've spent the last few years in New Balance and are changing to Nike following an acrimonious court case - if they play the last three games of the season in Nike shirts, do Nike pay the £5m bonus in the contract for winning the title? Do New Balance pay nothing? Those things are unlikely to be covered in the contracts because the contracts will assume a season ends on the 30th June. Again, it'd be chaotic - and it'd be the kind of chaotic that requires expensive, time consuming litigation. It's another reason why the 30th June is to my mind a hard deadline. Nike have said that Liverpool will finish this season in NB whenever that/if that is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, S-Platt said: Nike have said that Liverpool will finish this season in NB whenever that/if that is. Wasn't it the courts who said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 3, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2020 27 minutes ago, S-Platt said: Nike have said that Liverpool will finish this season in NB whenever that/if that is. Makes sense, who would want their brand associated with a pandemic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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