Dean Smith

[villakram]

Hope returns 

Who knows how this will turn out but there are clear reasons to be optimistic.

[Rodders]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I'd say the bolded part is a little naive, given modern fans.

Do you think fans would stay patient if in 2 years, we're relegated to League 1?

Er, not to want to presume on blandy's behalf  but I don't think he was thinking 2 years of sustained poor results, and getting relegated would involve catastrophic rather than poor results.

[Wainy316]

I was thinking that I felt quite bad for the Brentford fans and then realised that fear of losing a manager is something that is totally alien to us.

The last 15 years worth have all been ghastly with the exception of O'Neill (and he was far from perfect).

 

Was GT the last manager we had seriously courted?

[hippo]

8 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Seems a bit strange. I know a lot of the squad are away on International duty and perhaps the others have been given a few days off that have coincided with his appointment. I'd imagine he will be already going into Bodymoor Heath though and putting plans in place with John Terry and the rest of his backroom staff who I'd expected will be appointed with in the next day or so.

They are rehearsing the press conference as we speak - but the final cut won't be until monday - Jesus will be coordinating 

"Cut - Terry you come in @ 3 mins 25 - not 3.15"  - "Smithy the phrase is  we go again - not well go again"  all clear .....Take 4  "Micah how are them coffees coming along?" 

 

[blandy]

8 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I'd say the bolded part is a little naive, given modern fans.

Do you think fans would stay patient if in 2 years, we're relegated to League 1?

Why do you even ask? did you not see the bit you quoted in bold -  "if people see progress".

Obviously, relegation would not be progress, it would be further regress. The point I'm making is for all the modern impatience that you rightly identify, I don't think that overall supporters are so binary that if they can see something taking shape, genuine steps in the right direction, they will give a degree of leeway to a manager. Of course they'll want to see the progress turn into results and it's not limitless, but managers get honeymoon periods, and ones that communicate, show they know where they're trying to go tend to be given longer ones than others who do the opposite. I can't believe that anyone sees it differently.

[villaglint]

1 hour ago, jacketspuds said:

New 5-year deal apparently.

As the boot washer. 

As an aside and completely off topic but does it seem odd that in no press conference in the last 6/7 weeks did his name get a mention. We’ve been absolutely shocking at CB, tried numerous options all who have been awful. Because of injury/suspension we’ve even had to play our U23 RB there. But never once did a journo think to ask Brucey about the former England International who now calls himself a CB that we’re paying 40k a week. 

Not that I’d have wanted him to play of course. It gives me a warm feeling to have that self assuredness that I’ll never have to see him play again (for anyone). But it speaks to what a joke this man is that even in those circumstances his name is still completely forgotten. 

OFF TOPIC rant over.

[bannedfromHandV]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

Why do you even ask? did you not see the bit you quoted in bold -  "if people see progress".

Obviously, relegation would not be progress, it would be further regress. The point I'm making is for all the modern impatience that you rightly identify, I don't think that overall supporters are so binary that if they can see something taking shape, genuine steps in the right direction, they will give a degree of leeway to a manager. Of course they'll want to see the progress turn into results and it's not limitless, but managers get honeymoon periods, and ones that communicate, show they know where they're trying to go tend to be given longer ones than others who do the opposite. I can't believe that anyone sees it differently.

But progress can be measured in different ways, if this appointment is with one (if not one and half) eye on the future then progress could mean a developed culture and playing style developed in our youth teams with an RoI 5-10 years later.

We might have to go further back to go forwards, a la Southampton.

If we're going to stick with progress = games won then how are we, as fans, going to treat this appointment any differently to that of SB or anyone else?

[CosmicVillan]

4 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

Why would we want to even consider that, we have the manager who got Hogan scoring 20 goals in 27 games..

Injury prone and his confidence is shot

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But progress can be measured in different ways, if this appointment is with one (if not one and half) eye on the future then progress could mean a developed culture and playing style developed in our youth teams with an RoI 5-10 years later.

We might have to go further back to go forwards, a la Southampton.

If we're going to stick with progress = games won then how are we, as fans, going to treat this appointment any differently to that of SB or anyone else?

This is where I draw the line. He has to win more games than Bruce was. Sure build for for future etc - but any old knob could come in watch us get pummelled every week - then spin us a line that he is laying great foundations ...

Brucey got us to around 8th taking over mid season - Thats the minimum I expect tbh. 

[Condimentalist]

1 hour ago, Made In Aston said:

Snith and Terry are meeting the players on Monday so maybe the press conference will be then. 

I imagine there will be something on the website later today/tomorrow but it's probably delayed out of respect for HDE

[Rob182]

41 minutes ago, villakram said:

Hope returns 

Who knows how this will turn out but there are clear reasons to be optimistic.

Be careful with that hope. In the wrong hands, it can lead to dementia, syphilis and diarrhea.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Rob182

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

“We can learn from each other and Thomas has a different outlook, but like young players, coaches need to expand their horizons and keep challenging themselves – and that includes working in a different country.” - Dean Smith

See, THIS is one of the main issues I had with Bruce, I've said many times across message boards. If he appeared to even be willing to take on board new ideas and progress his philosophy I would have had more time for him.

However he seemed like it was his way as he has "done it 4 times" or no way at all.

[Johnnyp]

9 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

“We can learn from each other and Thomas has a different outlook, but like young players, coaches need to expand their horizons and keep challenging themselves – and that includes working in a different country.” - Dean Smith

See, THIS is one of the main issues I had with Bruce, I've said many times across message boards. If he appeared to even be willing to take on board new ideas and progress his philosophy I would have had more time for him.

However he seemed like it was his way as he has "done it 4 times" or no way at all.

Bruce was deluded . I've said it many times, we could play that game against Fulham again now with Bruce in charge with the benefit of hindsight and it would probably still go the same. They'd own the ball, get the breakthrough then reactive football which was Bruce's villa to a tee.

[romavillan]

1 hour ago, Wainy316 said:

I was thinking that I felt quite bad for the Brentford fans and then realised that fear of losing a manager is something that is totally alien to us.

The last 15 years worth have all been ghastly with the exception of O'Neill (and he was far from perfect).

 

Was GT the last manager we had seriously courted?

Deffo, when he went for the England job. We've been a total graveyard for managers, no-one has gone on to have success after managing here that I can remember.

[blandy]

41 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But progress can be measured in different ways, if this appointment is with one (if not one and half) eye on the future then progress could mean a developed culture and playing style developed in our youth teams with an RoI 5-10 years later.

We might have to go further back to go forwards, a la Southampton.

If we're going to stick with progress = games won then how are we, as fans, going to treat this appointment any differently to that of SB or anyone else?

I don't know what your point is here. Maybe you're just airing general observations, but you quoted me, so I'll try and address what you're saying in the context of what I wrote

Quote

the way forward is and always should have been to rebuild the club on a sustainable, stable, sound coaching type of footing. Embedding a system and all the rest. ...

You're right people are less forgiving or patient, but my sense is that if people see progress, they will put up with a period of poor results, particularly if they connect with a manager and the manager connects with them.

So again, progress wouldn't be relegation. Progress isn't = games won. Progress, as the club has needed for a long time is to develop an identity, a pattern of play that the players understand and buy into, that involves consistent training methods, set up for the modern game. It requires effective, clear tactics that the players buy in to. It's OK for mistakes to be made, if they're learnt from. Everyone makes mistakes. It's OK not to win every game. Progress is seeing young players come through and fit into and improve the team, rather than being sidelined. Progress is seeing signings actually suit the pattern of play and slot in to the system easily. Progress isn't buying or loaning loads of expensive midfielders or forwards and then having them sit out games because you've gone and got "want that one" from somewhere else, like a spoilt kid. Progress is finding signings that turn out to be bargains - like Bruce did with McGuinn. Not like he did with Lansbury or Hogan etc. Or like Timmy did with Micah.

Surely you can see that we've got to end this ludicrous short-termism of wasting tons of money on "name signings" or "he played well against us". We have an U-23 side that plays one way and a first team that played a different way. Where's the sense in that. Having them all play the same way, that's progress because it allows players to move up and settle much better, already knowing where to be, what to do, where others will be.

So to start with, for a period, winning won't be the be all and end all. Repairing the damage, sorting out the unbalanced squad and establishing some sort of progressive style of play, as opposed to "give it to Jack" would be a nice start. But I suspect you know all that, really.

[bully]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Any news on when the press conference will be?

Monday, 4pm

[screwdriver]

Hearing Villa have hired Smith I felt similar to when we hired John Gregory. Underwhelmed.

[AVFCDAN]

34 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Deffo, when he went for the England job. We've been a total graveyard for managers, no-one has gone on to have success after managing here that I can remember.

The inevitable outcome of being a mediocre club I guess.

Big enough to court managers below us but never good enough to lose ours to a bigger club.

More or less the same when it comes to players. Apart from our MON midfield getting ripped apart about 10 years ago we've hardly ever lost a player to someone bigger since.

[striker]

Although needing time to implement his own ideas there's enough attacking quality in the Villa squad for Smith & Terry to go one better and get Villa promoted this season.

Through Terry's coaching, the back four will become more solid while the players Villa have through the middle and going forward are well used to more attacking football at their previous clubs. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by striker

[bannedfromHandV]

36 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't know what your point is here. Maybe you're just airing general observations, but you quoted me, so I'll try and address what you're saying in the context of what I wrote

So again, progress wouldn't be relegation. Progress isn't = games won. Progress, as the club has needed for a long time is to develop an identity, a pattern of play that the players understand and buy into, that involves consistent training methods, set up for the modern game. It requires effective, clear tactics that the players buy in to. It's OK for mistakes to be made, if they're learnt from. Everyone makes mistakes. It's OK not to win every game. Progress is seeing young players come through and fit into and improve the team, rather than being sidelined. Progress is seeing signings actually suit the pattern of play and slot in to the system easily. Progress isn't buying or loaning loads of expensive midfielders or forwards and then having them sit out games because you've gone and got "want that one" from somewhere else, like a spoilt kid. Progress is finding signings that turn out to be bargains - like Bruce did with McGuinn. Not like he did with Lansbury or Hogan etc. Or like Timmy did with Micah.

Surely you can see that we've got to end this ludicrous short-termism of wasting tons of money on "name signings" or "he played well against us". We have an U-23 side that plays one way and a first team that played a different way. Where's the sense in that. Having them all play the same way, that's progress because it allows players to move up and settle much better, already knowing where to be, what to do, where others will be.

So to start with, for a period, winning won't be the be all and end all. Repairing the damage, sorting out the unbalanced squad and establishing some sort of progressive style of play, as opposed to "give it to Jack" would be a nice start. But I suspect you know all that, really.

You've either misconstrued my tone or I've failed to communicate effectively, probably a bit of both. 

I have zero issue with anything you've said, I agree with it all, when we got relegated I hoped we would use it as a platform for change, even now, I'm saying we may have to even further back to go forward. I am not arguing the point with you (and I only picked up on your post as it began my train of thought, not because you posted it). 

My point, if I have a point, is that it's all well and good us saying that we just need to give it time and writing off this season etc but in reality, if we do not begin to get better on the pitch (which ultimately will only really be measured by results), then it's all hot air and 1 or 2 years from now we'll be debating the virtues of sacking versus keeping the Manager all over again. 

It was just a question, something to debate, there was no angle or agenda beyond that, believe it or not.