hippo Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 15 hours ago, Tomaszk said: Where was that? Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2019 1 minute ago, av1 said: Tammy decided to stay with us over Wolves in January when we were a championship club Hmmm, not really how it happened I don't think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Hmmm, not really how it happened I don't think In his interview after the POF Jack said how he had to lie to Tammy to stop him leaving in January. You may very well be correct, i certainly have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, but from Jacks interview it certainly sounded like it was Tammys decision rather than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, av1 said: In his interview after the POF Jack said how he had to lie to Tammy to stop him leaving in January. You may very well be correct, i certainly have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, but from Jacks interview it certainly sounded like it was Tammys decision rather than anything else. I thought I remembered some quotes from Abraham about how he wanted to go to Wolves but a quick google doesn't bring anything up so ignore me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DaveAV1 Posted June 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I thought I remembered some quotes from Abraham about how he wanted to go to Wolves but a quick google doesn't bring anything up so ignore me Tammy said more or less the same. He thought about a move to Wolves, but a quick google brought nothing up. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 3 hours ago, rodders0223 said: Options to buy ultimately mean little, say we loan Tammy and he bangs in 20 goals this season I can presume Chelsea will tell him to reject a deal with us and that he will get a chance for them (6 months later after Tammy sees through it they sell him for £40m) That would be an incredibly risky move on Chelsea's part, they'd be much happier and it would be much easier for them not having an option to buy at all in that situation. Clubs only agree to this kind of deal if they want the player off their books, hence it wasn't in Tammy's deal last year, they are still looking at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted June 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2019 1 hour ago, wilko154 said: So I want to give a bit of perspective on Tammy Abraham. I've seen a lot mentioned around his poor finishing, missing too many chances, wouldn't be prolific enough for us in the Premier League. Here are the stats: Tammy Abraham 2018/19 (Aston Villa) - 40 apps - 26 goals - 2.9 shots per game - scored 22.41% of shots 2017/18 (Swansea) - 16 apps - 5 goals - 1.4 shots per game - scored 22.32% of shots 2016/17 (Bristol C) - 41 apps - 23 goals - 2.7 shots per game - scored 20.78% of shots Now % wise this doesn't look that great, so lets compare against some other strikers. Mo Salah 2018/19 (Liverpool) - 38 apps - 22 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.08% of shots Sergio Aguero 2018/19 (Man City) - 33 apps - 21 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 17.68% of shots Harry Kane 2018/19 (Spurs) - 28 apps - 17 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.87% if shots Now let's compare it to his closest competition in the Championship this season. Teemu Pukki 2018/19 (Norwich) - 43 apps - 29 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 20.44% of shots Neal Maupay 2018/19 (Brentford) - 43 apps - 25 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 17.62% of shots What does this tell us? Well three main things for me: 1) The main importance for all of these strikers has been the amount of chances their teams have created for them. In our case we are creating an average of 2.9 chances per game for Abraham. If we can increase that to 3.6 chances/shots per game as the Premier League strikers are getting then Tammy would (in a stats world) score 32 goals in the same amount of appearances. 2) Year on year Tammy Abraham is becoming a better striker 3) The fact that Abraham misses too many chances is a myth. Thanks for this Wilko, really interesting. If we have a chance of signing him we should do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 1 hour ago, wilko154 said: So I want to give a bit of perspective on Tammy Abraham. I've seen a lot mentioned around his poor finishing, missing too many chances, wouldn't be prolific enough for us in the Premier League. Here are the stats: Tammy Abraham 2018/19 (Aston Villa) - 40 apps - 26 goals - 2.9 shots per game - scored 22.41% of shots 2017/18 (Swansea) - 16 apps - 5 goals - 1.4 shots per game - scored 22.32% of shots 2016/17 (Bristol C) - 41 apps - 23 goals - 2.7 shots per game - scored 20.78% of shots Now % wise this doesn't look that great, so lets compare against some other strikers. Mo Salah 2018/19 (Liverpool) - 38 apps - 22 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.08% of shots Sergio Aguero 2018/19 (Man City) - 33 apps - 21 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 17.68% of shots Harry Kane 2018/19 (Spurs) - 28 apps - 17 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.87% if shots Now let's compare it to his closest competition in the Championship this season. Teemu Pukki 2018/19 (Norwich) - 43 apps - 29 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 20.44% of shots Neal Maupay 2018/19 (Brentford) - 43 apps - 25 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 17.62% of shots What does this tell us? Well three main things for me: 1) The main importance for all of these strikers has been the amount of chances their teams have created for them. In our case we are creating an average of 2.9 chances per game for Abraham. If we can increase that to 3.6 chances/shots per game as the Premier League strikers are getting then Tammy would (in a stats world) score 32 goals in the same amount of appearances. 2) Year on year Tammy Abraham is becoming a better striker 3) The fact that Abraham misses too many chances is a myth. Excellent post thank you. Since Wes Edens puts a lot of store by statistical and technical analysis, I would imagine our recruitment team won’t be unaware of these and many more figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 It's a good point. But I'd rather focus on a conversion rate of clear cut chances, and shots within the 6 yard box. Then just shots in total. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 3 hours ago, wilko154 said: So I want to give a bit of perspective on Tammy Abraham. I've seen a lot mentioned around his poor finishing, missing too many chances, wouldn't be prolific enough for us in the Premier League. Here are the stats: Tammy Abraham 2018/19 (Aston Villa) - 40 apps - 26 goals - 2.9 shots per game - scored 22.41% of shots 2017/18 (Swansea) - 16 apps - 5 goals - 1.4 shots per game - scored 22.32% of shots 2016/17 (Bristol C) - 41 apps - 23 goals - 2.7 shots per game - scored 20.78% of shots Now % wise this doesn't look that great, so lets compare against some other strikers. Mo Salah 2018/19 (Liverpool) - 38 apps - 22 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.08% of shots Sergio Aguero 2018/19 (Man City) - 33 apps - 21 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 17.68% of shots Harry Kane 2018/19 (Spurs) - 28 apps - 17 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.87% if shots Now let's compare it to his closest competition in the Championship this season. Teemu Pukki 2018/19 (Norwich) - 43 apps - 29 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 20.44% of shots Neal Maupay 2018/19 (Brentford) - 43 apps - 25 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 17.62% of shots What does this tell us? Well three main things for me: 1) The main importance for all of these strikers has been the amount of chances their teams have created for them. In our case we are creating an average of 2.9 chances per game for Abraham. If we can increase that to 3.6 chances/shots per game as the Premier League strikers are getting then Tammy would (in a stats world) score 32 goals in the same amount of appearances. 2) Year on year Tammy Abraham is becoming a better striker 3) The fact that Abraham misses too many chances is a myth. Good post. Unfortunately the chances created stat in bold will most likely go down rather than go up regardless of who is is up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, Skruff said: It's a good point. But I'd rather focus on a conversion rate of clear cut chances, and shots within the 6 yard box. Then just shots in total. That's where Tammy operates 100% of the time. I don't think he's ever scored from outside the box in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, alreadyexists said: Thanks for this Wilko, really interesting. If we have a chance of signing him we should do! What Wilko don't tell you here is that Tammy had 6 penalties included in that. I don't know if there others have, but it will either way not be representative. Then you can look at every single goal that comes as a header, I suspect that's about 10 goals, but I haven't checked. Which means in reality he had about 10 league goals with his feet over 49 matches while playing lone striker for an in form team with Grealish behind him. I don't think it's a myth in regards to his finishing. If you actually go in-depth on it I suspect it proves to be true. Either way I like Tammy and I hope we sign him. Edited June 3, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted June 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: What Wilko don't tell you here is that Tammy had 6 penalties included in that. I don't know if there others have, but it will either way not be representative. Then you can look at every single goal that comes as a header, I suspect that's about 10 goals, but I haven't checked. Which means in reality he had about 10 league goals with his feet over 49 matches while playing lone striker for an in form team with Grealish behind him. I don't think it's a myth in regards to his finishing. If you actually go in-depth on it I suspect it proves to be true. Either way I like Tammy and I hope we sign him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 33 minutes ago, Keyblade said: That's where Tammy operates 100% of the time. I don't think he's ever scored from outside the box in his career. True. But the strikes he was compared to doesn't. It would give us a clearer picture, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeps Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Just to let you all know, he has removed Aston Villa on his Instagram BIO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 29 minutes ago, deeps said: Just to let you all know, he has removed Aston Villa on his Instagram BIO Not the best news but I wish him well. He did his job with professionalism and was never afraid to work extra hard for the team. Some players did their job and this past week Villa decided they were not a good fit next season, if Tammy decides that about Villa then its fair enough. There are other strikers for us and other clubs for him or who knows maybe Chelsea will give him a go. Fair play Tammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisvilla4 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 35 minutes ago, deeps said: Just to let you all know, he has removed Aston Villa on his Instagram BIO He will be known as Kevin to me from now on 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2019 5 hours ago, wilko154 said: So I want to give a bit of perspective on Tammy Abraham. I've seen a lot mentioned around his poor finishing, missing too many chances, wouldn't be prolific enough for us in the Premier League. Here are the stats: Tammy Abraham 2018/19 (Aston Villa) - 40 apps - 26 goals - 2.9 shots per game - scored 22.41% of shots 2017/18 (Swansea) - 16 apps - 5 goals - 1.4 shots per game - scored 22.32% of shots 2016/17 (Bristol C) - 41 apps - 23 goals - 2.7 shots per game - scored 20.78% of shots Now % wise this doesn't look that great, so lets compare against some other strikers. Mo Salah 2018/19 (Liverpool) - 38 apps - 22 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.08% of shots Sergio Aguero 2018/19 (Man City) - 33 apps - 21 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 17.68% of shots Harry Kane 2018/19 (Spurs) - 28 apps - 17 goals - 3.6 shots per game - scored 16.87% if shots Now let's compare it to his closest competition in the Championship this season. Teemu Pukki 2018/19 (Norwich) - 43 apps - 29 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 20.44% of shots Neal Maupay 2018/19 (Brentford) - 43 apps - 25 goals - 3.3 shots per game - scored 17.62% of shots What does this tell us? Well three main things for me: 1) The main importance for all of these strikers has been the amount of chances their teams have created for them. In our case we are creating an average of 2.9 chances per game for Abraham. If we can increase that to 3.6 chances/shots per game as the Premier League strikers are getting then Tammy would (in a stats world) score 32 goals in the same amount of appearances. 2) Year on year Tammy Abraham is becoming a better striker 3) The fact that Abraham misses too many chances is a myth. Top post. Colour me convinced. Just gotta somehow create the chances. No pressure lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 The problem with comparing Tammy to Salah, Kane, and Aguero, is that these are strikers who are often going for worldies, and who tend to shoot on sight. They also create a lot of chances for themselves from nothing positions. That style of play is going to drive up the total shots figure, while pushing down the conversion %. Good statistical analysis is really important, but you have to compare like with like, and you have to factor in random variation (Tammy's only season in the PL was such a small sample of games from which to draw conclusions). Trusting my own eyes for a moment, I think you rarely see Tammy place a finish in the way you'd expect of a top class striker, and I don't think that's something that comes with age. A very good player, with a good all-round game, but I'd be surprised if he makes it as a Champions League striker. More of a mid-table PL player imo, or a squad player at a top side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 4 hours ago, KentVillan said: The problem with comparing Tammy to Salah, Kane, and Aguero, is that these are strikers who are often going for worldies, and who tend to shoot on sight. They also create a lot of chances for themselves from nothing positions. That style of play is going to drive up the total shots figure, while pushing down the conversion %. Good statistical analysis is really important, but you have to compare like with like, and you have to factor in random variation (Tammy's only season in the PL was such a small sample of games from which to draw conclusions). Trusting my own eyes for a moment, I think you rarely see Tammy place a finish in the way you'd expect of a top class striker, and I don't think that's something that comes with age. A very good player, with a good all-round game, but I'd be surprised if he makes it as a Champions League striker. More of a mid-table PL player imo, or a squad player at a top side. I agree with this but it’s what we need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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