bobzy Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 6 hours ago, a m ole said: Just to defend Mike Dean () http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36047575 I think it’s fair to interpret it as an accidental foul given how close it is to the edge. From that article, and as you partly quoted...: "The previous 'triple-punishment' rule required a red card - and therefore a suspension - as well as the award of a penalty under those circumstances... ...But deliberate fouls will still incur a red card. Those include holding, pulling or pushing, not playing the ball, serious foul play, violent conduct or deliberate handball in order to deny a goalscoring opportunity." In which case: a] This was outside the box, thus not a penalty, and thus not within the "triple-punishment" area which (should) be relaxed. b] It's a deliberate handball which stops a goalscoring opportunity. I can't see why it wasn't a red. I'm thankful, but don't get it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, bobzy said: From that article, and as you partly quoted...: "The previous 'triple-punishment' rule required a red card - and therefore a suspension - as well as the award of a penalty under those circumstances... ...But deliberate fouls will still incur a red card. Those include holding, pulling or pushing, not playing the ball, serious foul play, violent conduct or deliberate handball in order to deny a goalscoring opportunity." In which case: a] This was outside the box, thus not a penalty, and thus not within the "triple-punishment" area which (should) be relaxed. b] It's a deliberate handball which stops a goalscoring opportunity. I can't see why it wasn't a red. I'm thankful, but don't get it at all. It’s whether you judge it a deliberate handball, he’s deliberately using his hands (as a goalkeeper would) but whether he deliberately did it knowingly outside the box is another matter. I assume Dean thought that Johnstone believed he was in his area but in fact wasn’t and thus a yellow card. Im still not convinced it was outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 1 minute ago, a m ole said: It’s whether you judge it a deliberate handball, he’s deliberately using his hands (as a goalkeeper would) but whether he deliberately did it knowingly outside the box is another matter. I assume Dean thought that Johnstone believed he was in his area but in fact wasn’t and thus a yellow card. Im still not convinced it was outside the box. If a goalkeeper is handling the ball outside the box, it's almost always going to be fine margins. It's deliberate handball - that's the rule. It's not "deliberate handball if you are believed to know that you're outside the box". Same way that violent conduct isn't "violent conduct if you're intending to be violent". Oh, and he was definitely outside the box: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withes_shin Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, a m ole said: It’s whether you judge it a deliberate handball, he’s deliberately using his hands (as a goalkeeper would) but whether he deliberately did it knowingly outside the box is another matter. I assume Dean thought that Johnstone believed he was in his area but in fact wasn’t and thus a yellow card. Im still not convinced it was outside the box. If he thought he was in his area why didn't he hold it rather than just tip it up into the air. It wasn't that far above his head that he could catch it and hold it. It's in the past now and I really don't care because............."going to Wembley!!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 @bobzy I’m only assuming that is Dean’s interpretation of the rule. Whether it’s right or not, , just reasoning why he made the decision he did. That screenshot looks like where sky stopped the replay, but it’s before it hits his hand, he was reaching much further back when he made contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted May 16, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: He shouldn't have ran out like that in the first place. Neither him nor Chester did very well there. Chester hesitated, and Sam came out too far. Edited May 16, 2018 by AVTuco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 7 hours ago, bobzy said: If a goalkeeper is handling the ball outside the box, it's almost always going to be fine margins. It's deliberate handball - that's the rule. It's not "deliberate handball if you are believed to know that you're outside the box". Same way that violent conduct isn't "violent conduct if you're intending to be violent". Oh, and he was definitely outside the box: Don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Judging by Sam Johnstones comments on instagram sounds like it's a dinal goodbye. Not really a shock as we **** it up by not going up. This is just the start. The solid Johnstone and terry be the first out. The witness begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 He's been good, but he's hardly irreplaceable. There's surely another PL team with a decent young goalkeeper to loan out, or a free transfer or something. You don't need Manuel Neuer in the Championship; Wolves got promoted with nearly a hundred points with John Ruddy in goal. The best teams score more than their opponents and limit their chances with possession. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: He's been good, but he's hardly irreplaceable. There's surely another PL team with a decent young goalkeeper to loan out, or a free transfer or something. You don't need Manuel Neuer in the Championship; Wolves got promoted with nearly a hundred points with John Ruddy in goal. The best teams score more than their opponents and limit their chances with possession. Agreed. He has been good but I can't think of many games where I feel like he got us the points. He has been part of a solid defence but not someone who can't be replaced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Agreed. He has been good but I can't think of many games where I feel like he got us the points. He has been part of a solid defence but not someone who can't be replaced. Yep. I still dont think hes all that. Most our clean sheets were because the opposition barely had a shot on target. When he was called upon like the Final.. he got beat. I think he will be a great keeper.. but i think we can find one or two keepers on the cheap that are good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr_Pangloss Posted May 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2018 He has dodgy moments and is the worst kicker I've seen, but other than that, fairly solid. I have absolute confidence that Jed Steer will be just as effective, I don't think a goalkeeper is a priority for us at all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Just now, Dr_Pangloss said: He has dodgy moments and is the worst kicker I've seen, but other than that, fairly solid. I have absolute confidence that Jed Steer will be just as effective, I don't think a goalkeeper is a priority for us at all. Also potentially have Gollini coming back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Don’t really understand all the faith in Steer, seems to be talented but very injury prone. What if we lose him for months or the majority of the season again? Wouldn’t be averse to an older, experienced keeper who can organise the defence and provide some leadership, esp if JT leaves. Wouldn’t mind Gollini being given a chance but he seemed to get off on the wrong foot with management. Could be an option and even perform well with some decent coaching time, don’t think he’s interested in being here but maybe he could be convinced with some words of encouragement... Edited May 28, 2018 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted May 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2018 So it looks like he is going. My concern when we got an inexperienced loan keeper in was that we'd fail to get promoted, lose the keeper and then be stuck without a bedded-in player. This is exactly what has happened so now we need to go shopping yet again (or rely on Steer who has lost out on an entire season of gametime where he might have improved). The loan game can be important, I understand that, but when it doesn't work out it leaves your team back at square one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2018 In my opinion he's been competent but distribution is utterly woeful, is prone to errors and doesn't dominate the box. I have seen nothing Jed Steer couldn't replace for free. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 We loaned a player for 2 years and turned him from a poor player into quite a decent one, whilst our Jed has had to sit and watch. Hope we have learned a lesson here. Unless the loan player coming in is the real deal theres no point in progressing other teams players ahead of our own. I honestly think Jed was the better player at the start of the season, but its not as glamorous as getting a Man Utd boy in on loan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I wouldn't have minded him back but with 1 year left United will be moving him on for a fee whilst they can, and we won't be paying him. I hope for his sake he doesn't become a PL club's £5m punt/investment and rots away. Massive few years for him. I rate Steer but serious question marks now after several big injuries. Goalkeepers shouldn't be picking up the level of injuries he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: I wouldn't have minded him back but with 1 year left United will be moving him on for a fee whilst they can, and we won't be paying him. I hope for his sake he doesn't become a PL club's £5m punt/investment and rots away. Massive few years for him. I rate Steer but serious question marks now after several big injuries. Goalkeepers shouldn't be picking up the level of injuries he does. Has he had several big injuries? He was third choice last season and then one big one this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Johnstone is light years ahead of Steer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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