Steve Bruce

[LakotaDakota]

10 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Have you seen some of the Football Brentford play, a team with a fraction of our resources and who lose their best players almost every year?
 

 

and yet they finished 14 points behind us last year, Won 6 fewer games, Scored less goals and conceeded more. But they're brilliant because they pass the ball around a lot...

We already have more points than them this season after only 2 games.

Edited August 16, 2018 by LakotaDakota

[Gompedyret]

7 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Hmm, ask yourself this.

Are the "some on here's" just angry because they are shit fans who are just looking for something to moan about?

OR

Are they pleased for the 2 league wins (and progression in the cup) but acknowledge and are worried about the poor style of play, tactics and performances mirroring the past 2 seasons of failure?

Ya know, because shite football eventually turns into losing football, especially against better teams, and/or lesser teams with fight and a sound manager?

Aside from common football sense dictating that better football and tactics will always eventually prevail and be more sustainable towards progress and future success?

Have you seen some of the Football Brentford play, a team with a fraction of our resources and who lose their best players almost every year?

Cue "But we spanked Wolves 4 - 1 , were 90 minutes away from promotion, and have had our best start to a season (In the Championship) in a trillion years"

Bruce produces "There or thereabouts" not because of expertise, but because of some of the pure quality we have in the team.

Stop lying to yourself and making it seem that if we thought we could guarantee promotion with this tripe we would not accept it for the greater good.

But Nah, we just want our team to lose so we can be right.

Football has moved on, and it seems some of you belong back there with Bruce.

 

Careful now. You almost make it sound like it's possible to have two or more thoughts in your head at the same time.

[StefanAVFC]

We're winning games but the way in which we're winning is unsustainable.

We don't have a pattern or style of play.

I'll be delighted if we keep winning, but the issue is that we could easily slip into a bad run if things start going against us.

[rubberman]

14 minutes ago, NeilS said:

Ok, I don't think anybody is 100% convinced by our start. Yes we need to improve on our performances as they have been rusty and error riddled to say the least. However 6 points on the board is a great start, and I hope that as the players start to gel and get up to speed then the performances should improve. Now, I know the fact I said gel will spark the "but he has had a pre-season to sort all that out" arguments. Well this pre-season has not been like any pre-season I can remember. The club lost half the first team as we weren't able to afford to keep on the likes of Snodgrass and Terry. So for the first two to three games we have been integrating 2-4 new players into the team, players who came back late after the world cup like BB and MJ, players returning from long term injuries, and some youth players as well. Is it any wonder we are playing a bit like strangers at the moment?

Spot on IMO.  I'm prepared to give Bruce  a few more weeks to sort things out (by Brentford ideally!).

His strength is defence.  That has been all over the place so far with 3 completely different sets of players, including 3 different keepers, but I am confident he will sort this out because that's what he does.  I can the idea behind Jedi at CB, but it hasn't worked and hope it's not persevered with.  A settled back 5 for a run of games (which are still pretty soft apart from Brentford) and I'm sure the understandings will start to tighten it up.  It's not ideal, particularly if we have another new player to drop in there at some point, but our off-season was a disaster so we are playing catch up.

The midfield and attack v Wigan was pretty aggressive.  It's a problem that Kodjia's not scoring and Adomah's form is continuing from the back half of last season, not the first half: (I would have been happy to see him go as I don't think he has another season like that in him).  Get a new striker in and with Grealish, McGinn and Green creating and BB and Conor chipping in with goals from midfield we should be frightening teams.  6 goals in our first 2 league games suggest something going right, but masses more potential.

So yeah, it's another 'he needs a bit more time' from me, but the results (despite performances) buy him this time for now.

[villaglint]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

We're winning games but the way in which we're winning is unsustainable.

We don't have a pattern or style of play.

I'll be delighted if we keep winning, but the issue is that we could easily slip into a bad run if things start going against us.

This is spot on. Our current run is very reminiscent of season 1 under Brucey. Winning but playing badly which could turn into a run of losing and playing badly any game. 

However I think there are signs for optimism. I think with McGinn and Grealish we are going to make chances. While Kodjia, Green, Adomah and Elmo haven't really clicked into gear yet I think they arent a million miles away and a goal for any of them will make a lot of difference. 

Main issue is getting the defence sorted and hopefully when we settle on our first choice team that will come. 

I think a few decent loans can also add a lot. So while it does feel like Brucey season 1 right now, I will currently choose to believe that it will be more like Brucey season 2 except with a better start. 

[carewjust4u]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

 

'I shouldn't be happy because eventually we'll lose'. 

We haven't had a proper lull since the start of last season and Bruce has turned around any blips in form since then. 

He's not excellent, he's not infallible but the constant crusade to deride him at any opportunity for any perceived slight is pathetic, tiresome and utterly pointless. 

what about December of last season? 1 win in 6 matches, and we played dreadfully.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think the majority of people are happy with the results but very concerned with the style of play. These people (including myself) remember the dreadful times we've been out of form over Steve's reign. This, combined with the knowledge that teams only seem to get promoted with a coherent and recognisable style of football is making everyone very unsettled. 

I think painting everyone feeling that way as a "infallible but the constant crusade" and " pathetic, tiresome and utterly pointless", is way over the top and frankly the type of short-sighted thinking that has this club still in the championship.

 

edit; for the record i am hoping that Bruce turns the manner of which we are playing around whilst we are still winning, but experience hasn't made me so confident.

Edited August 16, 2018 by carewjust4u

[Taxahunter]

51 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

and yet they finished 14 points behind us last year, Won 6 fewer games, Scored less goals and conceeded more. But they're brilliant because they pass the ball around a lot...

We already have more points than them this season & they managed a 1-1 draw at home to hull where we won 3-1 away.

Actually Brentford won 5-1 at home against Rotherham and managed a 1-1 draw away to Stoke

[VILLAMARV]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

This thread is mental. How many times can the exact same things be debated? 

Whether you are a Bruce admiror, hater or something in the middle. We all know we need some more signings or we can forget about promotion regardless of who’s in charge! 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

This thread is mental. How many times can the exact same things be debated? 

This, this, and this some more. If I could give this a thousand likes then I would.

This is simply one of the most bat shit mental threads I’ve ever seen on VT. I doubt anything new, original or insightful has been said for the last 1500 pages. I only read this thread out of weird curiosity these days. 

I admire the persistency to keep going though, but I do find the desire to repeat stuff over and over again somewhat baffling.

 

[macandally]

It appears there a group of people with a near term view of “do what is needed to get us up”, they largely support Bruce.  Then there are those who recognise there is no longevity in Bruce’s approach, we want him gone.

That said, I do think there are some good things with Bruce.  He does have a decent black book, an eye for a player and does seem to care about the club.

I therefore have a crazy idea, give Bruce Steve Rounds job as director of football, sack his coaching staff and bring in a modern,  forward thinking and aggressive Head Coach with a support team around him.

Its a very european approach, but the Brinners get their way and the Brouters are satisfied as we might have a plan.

Sorted, close the thread!

[LakotaDakota]

53 minutes ago, Taxahunter said:

Actually Brentford won 5-1 at home against Rotherham and managed a 1-1 draw away to Stoke

my apologies, just looked at thei results history and the final game of last season (1-1 against hull) showed up. We still have more points though

[Mark Albrighton]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

 

'I shouldn't be happy because eventually we'll lose'. 

We haven't had a proper lull since the start of last season and Bruce has turned around any blips in form since then. 

He's not excellent, he's not infallible but the constant crusade to deride him at any opportunity for any perceived slight is pathetic, tiresome and utterly pointless. 

Just on this, after that start we had two five match runs where we picked up three and four points respectively. It’s subjective, but I would say both of those were proper lulls.

I honestly think that the majority of people on here have similar views on Bruce, the people who are more critical and those who have reservations. There’s exceptions of course and there are a few who just want him gone. A lot of the apprehension is because the performances haven’t been convincing and will get found out. Which in fairness, has proved to be the case in the past. It’s just a case of how badly we will be found out and whether it takes five games to stop the rot when it does happen.

I’m taking each game as they come. I think the performances will improve on the whole. I’m fairly relaxed regarding Bruce, as one way or another, this will probably be his last season in the Championship with us.

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

and yet they finished 14 points behind us last year, Won 6 fewer games, Scored less goals and conceeded more. But they're brilliant because they pass the ball around a lot...

We already have more points than them this season & they managed a 1-1 draw at home to hull where we won 3-1 away.

Wow, that's some achievement.

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

We're winning games but the way in which we're winning is unsustainable.

We don't have a pattern or style of play.

I'll be delighted if we keep winning, but the issue is that we could easily slip into a bad run if things start going against us.

Never mind we could, we will.

[striker]

I'm never really going to be convinced by Bruce's footballing philosophy.

However by keeping most of the better players in last season's squad who are now conditioned to whats required in the Championship plus new owners and more players coming in I feel Villa will gain automatic promotion this season by some distance.

Edited August 16, 2018 by striker

[Tommo_b]

Thing is if Bruce won the first ten games in a row he would still have the same arguments, we get it, he plays sh*t football, but if it’s working you don’t change it, otherwise you end up doing a Birmingham City. 

Also what I find annoying is a lot of the people who want Bruce out act like they are in the minority on here, you’re not! No one is a Bruce defender, we all accept he is a nice guy and we don’t like his style but IMO he’s done a good job in getting us back competing, I think it’s forgotten what a shambles we were in or it’s brushed over as something that wasn’t as bad as it actually was. 

Then this summer there was another massive shambles hat has caused massive uncertainty around many aspects of the club considering ownerships, players, manager, I think let’s just accept the football is not the best at the moment but let’s continue this thread after 10 games. 

[rodders0223]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

This thread is mental. How many times can the exact same things be debated? 

Whether you are a Bruce admiror, hater or something in the middle. We all know we need some more signings or we can forget about promotion regardless of who’s in charge! 

There is no Gabby thread so this is now the only focus we have. It truly is mental, how many times the same things can be said every single day. I am all for coming in after a game and having a debate on the wrongs or rights, but holy **** christ this is the definition of madness.

 

[Lord Willard]

15 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Thing is if Bruce won the first ten games in a row he would still have the same arguments, we get it, he plays sh*t football, but if it’s working you don’t change it, otherwise you end up doing a Birmingham City. 

Also what I find annoying is a lot of the people who want Bruce out act like they are in the minority on here, you’re not! No one is a Bruce defender, we all accept he is a nice guy and we don’t like his style but IMO he’s done a good job in getting us back competing, I think it’s forgotten what a shambles we were in or it’s brushed over as something that wasn’t as bad as it actually was. 

Then this summer there was another massive shambles hat has caused massive uncertainty around many aspects of the club considering ownerships, players, manager, I think let’s just accept the football is not the best at the moment but let’s continue this thread after 10 games. 

Nailed on the head for me 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Lord Willard

[bannedfromHandV]

I reckon you could count on one hand how many teams have a well developed style of play in the UK.

This obsession with style has no real substance given that there's no real measure of it.

As with everything in life, people think the grass is greener on the other side.

I think it would be a real wake up call for those people if they took the time to actually watch other teams - and I'm not talking about Man City, or Liverpool, 2 of the handful of sides who do appear to have a well honed style (no coincidence they're also the 2 most expensive squads), I'm talking about Stoke, Ipswich, Burton, Middlesboro etc, teams that are actually in some way comparable with us and our current situation.

 

Again, I repeat, our biggest problem in my opinion is culture. We still have too many players who are afraid to be on the ball, they're more afraid of making a mistake than they are excited about doing something great - this comes from playing in a pressure cooker like Villa where every mistake and defeat is rounded upon with such hostility.

The culture has gotten better throughout SB's tenure, seemingly so at least. I have confidence it will continue to improve and in turn, so will we.

 

[villabromsgrove]

12 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Thing is if Bruce won the first ten games in a row he would still have the same arguments, we get it, he plays sh*t football, but if it’s working you don’t change it, otherwise you end up doing a Birmingham City. 

Also what I find annoying is a lot of the people who want Bruce out act like they are in the minority on here, you’re not! No one is a Bruce defender, we all accept he is a nice guy and we don’t like his style but IMO he’s done a good job in getting us back competing, I think it’s forgotten what a shambles we were in or it’s brushed over as something that wasn’t as bad as it actually was. 

Then this summer there was another massive shambles hat has caused massive uncertainty around many aspects of the club considering ownerships, players, manager, I think let’s just accept the football is not the best at the moment but let’s continue this thread after 10 games. 

We beat Hull because they had an awful makeshift defence who'd never played together before. Three of our defenders scored. We scrambled a 94th minute win against Wigan who were more physical and better organised for much of the game. Two defensive players scored along with an own goal from Wigan. We beat Yeovil in an awful game in which we struggled to match Yeovil's strength and commitment for sections of the match. Hourihane scored a tap in after some individual excellence by Kodjia, ably supplied by Grealish.

You say we play sh*t football under Bruce, and then you say we should accept it for now because it's working, even though we've been lucky to squeak two of our three results. 

The "sh*t football" will stop working once we start playing decent teams instead of relegation contenders and lower league opposition.

Should we wait for that to happen before making our views on the subject crystal clear?

I believe that the right manager/head coach could get another couple of percent out of each of our players, by providing then with a properly coached system of play. The combined overall team improvement would demonstrate the fact that we usually have slightly better players than the opposition.

I expect us to find a way to beat Ipswich this weekend for another three points, I'm not sure how we'll do it but I expect a win. We shouldn't be bumbling along waiting for a couple of moments of individual skill and a bit of luck to do the job for us. That's the manager's job, and he isn't doing it. Trusting your older experienced players to find a way of winning points when they get out on the pitch is not "managing" .... it's amateur, unacceptable and avoiding responsibility!

I'm fed up of saying that Bruce is a decent guy .... He's a good bloke who happens to be a very limited manager, and in terms of football he annoys the hell out of me far too much of the time!