Steve Bruce

[briny_ear]

21 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Good for you. I am happy that you are happy. Will you still be happy when we start losing games?

Um no. First I’ll let you in on a secret. We will lose games. All football teams do. Second, I will not be happy when we lose.

See, I think the reasoning for most fans goes a bit like this: win game = happy; lose game = not happy. 

Whereas the thought process for some on here seems to be win game = not happy; lose game = happy?? (Maybe because it “proves a point” about SB?).

Dunno, that's sometimes how it appears. Have seen a lot of bile and anger on here about our 100% start.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

Um no. First I’ll let you in on a secret. We will lose games. All football teams do. Second, I will not be happy when we lose.

See, I think the reasoning for most fans goes a bit like this: win game = happy; lose game = not happy. 

Whereas the thought process for some on here seems to be win game = not happy; lose game = happy?? (Maybe because it “proves a point” about SB?).

Dunno, that's sometimes how it appears. Have seen a lot of bile and anger on here about our 100% start.

 

Hmm, ask yourself this.

Are the "some on here's" just angry because they are shit fans who are just looking for something to moan about?

OR

Are they pleased for the 2 league wins (and progression in the cup) but acknowledge and are worried about the poor style of play, tactics and performances mirroring the past 2 seasons of failure?

Ya know, because shite football eventually turns into losing football, especially against better teams, and/or lesser teams with fight and a sound manager?

Aside from common football sense dictating that better football and tactics will always eventually prevail and be more sustainable towards progress and future success?

Have you seen some of the Football Brentford play, a team with a fraction of our resources and who lose their best players almost every year?

Cue "But we spanked Wolves 4 - 1 , were 90 minutes away from promotion, and have had our best start to a season (In the Championship) in a trillion years"

Bruce produces "There or thereabouts" not because of expertise, but because of some of the pure quality we have in the team.

Stop lying to yourself and making it seem that if we thought we could guarantee promotion with this tripe we would not accept it for the greater good.

But Nah, we just want our team to lose so we can be right.

Football has moved on, and it seems some of you belong back there with Bruce.

 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Hmm, ask yourself this.

Are the "some on here's" just angry because they are shit fans who are just looking for something to moan about?

OR

Are they pleased for the 2 league wins (and progression in the cup) but acknowledge and are worried about the poor style of play, tactics and performances mirroring the past 2 seasons of failure?

Ya know, because shite football eventually turns into losing football, especially against better teams, and/or lesser teams with fight and a sound manager?

Aside from common football sense dictating that better football and tactics will always eventually prevail and be more sustainable towards progress and future success?

Have you seen some of the Football Brentford play, a team with a fraction of our resources and who lose their best players almost every year?

Cue "But we spanked Wolves 4 - 1 , were 90 minutes away from promotion, and have had our best start to a season (In the Championship) in a trillion years"

Bruce produces "There or thereabouts" not because of expertise, but because of some of the pure quality we have in the team.

Stop lying to yourself and making it seem that if we thought we could guarantee promotion with this tripe we would not accept it for the greater good.

But Nah, we just want our team to lose so we can be right.

Football has moved on, and it seems some of you belong back there with Bruce.

 

Telling it like a trooper. Good on you my man.

[sheepyvillian]

Why would anyone be delighted with the style of football we seem to constantly produce, winning, I'm afraid, does not cover up that fact. Yes, I'm delighted with the 6 points, but we won't keep winning playing as we have been, and that's a certainty.

[srsmithusa]

3 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Um no. First I’ll let you in on a secret. We will lose games. All football teams do. Second, I will not be happy when we lose.

See, I think the reasoning for most fans goes a bit like this: win game = happy; lose game = not happy. 

Whereas the thought process for some on here seems to be win game = not happy; lose game = happy?? (Maybe because it “proves a point” about SB?).

Dunno, that's sometimes how it appears. Have seen a lot of bile and anger on here about our 100% start.

 

Briny, never been happy with a villa loss, never will be.  Never been unhappy that we’ve won.  But it’s really not hard to see signs of the shortcomings that have placed us in, and kept us in the championship.  So, if you promise not to impugn my motives for being critical of the way we have played, I’ll promise not to accuse you of supporting Bruce just to be sure we lose more in the long run and keep us out of the premiership longer.  

Overall, why don’t we discuss differing opinions without straw man arguments against hypothesized motives, deal?

[AvfcRigo82]

4 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Um no. First I’ll let you in on a secret. We will lose games. All football teams do. Second, I will not be happy when we lose.

See, I think the reasoning for most fans goes a bit like this: win game = happy; lose game = not happy. 

Whereas the thought process for some on here seems to be win game = not happy; lose game = happy?? (Maybe because it “proves a point” about SB?).

Dunno, that's sometimes how it appears. Have seen a lot of bile and anger on here about our 100% start.

 

I have to disagree with you Briny.

This picture keeps being painted of folk being happy if Villa lose? - I have not encountered one fan on here being over the moon when we lose.

I think some of the bullshit that is being brandished on this subject is complete and utter madness. (I don't mean your post is)

You touch on our 100% start - fair enough, and let's take nothing away from this that indeed it is 6 valuble points granted - equally the football being played in these games is utter garbage.

Call it Hoofball, Bruceball, Scrapeball, Dinosaurball, whatever, but its absolutely dour to watch whatever the result.

Do I love Aston Villa yes. Would I shell out over £100 on a day out to watch this kind of football, absolutely not.

Everyone is titled to opinions but I am not suprised some posters are getting pissed off for airing their views and opinions about Bruce and being immediately lambasted and shot down for speaking out against Bruce. - This I have witnessed and feel it is equally pretty sad.

[Lerner's Driver]

This thread runs into trouble more often than Johnathan Kodija's shadow of his former self.

The content is about as predictable as a Neil Taylor decision to check his run.

And the argument is about as likely to be won by anyone as Steve Bruce is to embrace a tiki taka philosophy.

We go again.

[Dave J]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

yeah, I thought he looked a bit blarry eyed too....might have been windy.

I also saw the bit where, Their manager referred to Steve as a "class act of a man"......quite a statement....not often you hear that from an opposing manager.

I felt quite proud of him.

No one has ever suggested any different on here as far as I know ? I suspect he is a rare breed in football these days and I would happily share a beer with him - I just don't want him making decisions about my football club.

[A'Villan]

4 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Hmm, ask yourself this.

Are the "some on here's" just angry because they are shit fans who are just looking for something to moan about?

OR

Are they pleased for the 2 league wins (and progression in the cup) but acknowledge and are worried about the poor style of play, tactics and performances mirroring the past 2 seasons of failure?

Ya know, because shite football eventually turns into losing football, especially against better teams, and/or lesser teams with fight and a sound manager?

Aside from common football sense dictating that better football and tactics will always eventually prevail and be more sustainable towards progress and future success?

Have you seen some of the Football Brentford play, a team with a fraction of our resources and who lose their best players almost every year?

Cue "But we spanked Wolves 4 - 1 , were 90 minutes away from promotion, and have had our best start to a season (In the Championship) in a trillion years"

Bruce produces "There or thereabouts" not because of expertise, but because of some of the pure quality we have in the team.

Stop lying to yourself and making it seem that if we thought we could guarantee promotion with this tripe we would not accept it for the greater good.

But Nah, we just want our team to lose so we can be right.

Football has moved on, and it seems some of you belong back there with Bruce.

 

Being a coach is a complicated and delicate process. You have to balance the expectations of everyone, from your own to the players to the all important supporters.

If you've ever had a coaching role you'd know that you can only control the controllable, some things are simply beyond a managers input. It is the players who are best placed to determine potential solutions to game related problems. Their ownership of problems and shared responsibility in formulating solutions is essential in cultivating a team to work on something greater than themselves, in other words producing the kind of performances you would like to see from Aston Villa.

While I too share your frustration and concerns over the football we produce under Bruce and the above is not an attempt to absolve him from his obvious shortcomings, I think it a bit extreme to denounce him entirely from any credit for last seasons efforts, and if I'm honest I think calling him and his supporters archaic is more a reflection of your distaste than it is a reality. Bruce achieved a top 4 finish in a competition which went right to the very end. No team that achieved promotion was a cut above us, I think it's better not to let disappointment cloud that judgement.

[DaveAV1]

5 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Being a coach is a complicated and delicate process. You have to balance the expectations of everyone, from your own to the players to the all important supporters.

If you've ever had a coaching role you'd know that you can only control the controllable, some things are simply beyond a managers input. It is the players who are best placed to determine potential solutions to game related problems. Their ownership of problems and shared responsibility in formulating solutions is essential in cultivating a team to work on something greater than themselves, in other words producing the kind of performances you would like to see from Aston Villa.

While I too share your frustration and concerns over the football we produce under Bruce and the above is not an attempt to absolve him from his obvious shortcomings, I think it a bit extreme to denounce him entirely from any credit for last seasons efforts, and if I'm honest I think calling him and his supporters archaic is more a reflection of your distaste than it is a reality. Bruce achieved a top 4 finish in a competition which went right to the very end. No team that achieved promotion was a cut above us, I think it's better not to let disappointment cloud that judgement.

I agree you can only control the controllable, however you can influence those areas that you don’t actually control with good preparation. Sure when the players cross the line, it’s largely down to them, apart from tactical changes. Managers do influence games with their presence, although I think that is largely psychological. I remember a few years ago we were playing Stoke away and for some personal reason Tony Pulis couldn’t be at the game. At halftime we were 2-0 up, then Pulis showed up for the second half and they upped their game massively and we were hanging on for a 2-2 draw in the end. 

I don’t agree that no team that achieved promotion were a cut above us. I think Wolves were throughout the vast majority of the season and Fulham were after Christmas. 

[Tommo_b]

14 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Being a coach is a complicated and delicate process. You have to balance the expectations of everyone, from your own to the players to the all important supporters.

If you've ever had a coaching role you'd know that you can only control the controllable, some things are simply beyond a managers input. It is the players who are best placed to determine potential solutions to game related problems. Their ownership of problems and shared responsibility in formulating solutions is essential in cultivating a team to work on something greater than themselves, in other words producing the kind of performances you would like to see from Aston Villa.

While I too share your frustration and concerns over the football we produce under Bruce and the above is not an attempt to absolve him from his obvious shortcomings, I think it a bit extreme to denounce him entirely from any credit for last seasons efforts, and if I'm honest I think calling him and his supporters archaic is more a reflection of your distaste than it is a reality. Bruce achieved a top 4 finish in a competition which went right to the very end. No team that achieved promotion was a cut above us, I think it's better not to let disappointment cloud that judgement.

Top post.

The thing is if we keep playing this way we won’t start losing, we will continue on like we did last season when Bruce was in charge, so although the football will be crap I would imagine we will still be up the top end of the league the rest of the season regardless. 

[Hoof hearted]

24 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Being a coach is a complicated and delicate process. You have to balance the expectations of everyone, from your own to the players to the all important supporters.

If you've ever had a coaching role you'd know that you can only control the controllable, some things are simply beyond a managers input. It is the players who are best placed to determine potential solutions to game related problems. Their ownership of problems and shared responsibility in formulating solutions is essential in cultivating a team to work on something greater than themselves, in other words producing the kind of performances you would like to see from Aston Villa.

While I too share your frustration and concerns over the football we produce under Bruce and the above is not an attempt to absolve him from his obvious shortcomings, I think it a bit extreme to denounce him entirely from any credit for last seasons efforts, and if I'm honest I think calling him and his supporters archaic is more a reflection of your distaste than it is a reality. Bruce achieved a top 4 finish in a competition which went right to the very end. No team that achieved promotion was a cut above us, I think it's better not to let disappointment cloud that judgement.

When I took my FA coaching badges in the mid 90s the basic premise of the course was to get the ball as fast as possible from your goal to theirs, or the 7 pass method.

There was no mention of basics like pass and move or 'triangles' if you like, now I'm assuming Bruce took it (he would have to to become a professional manager) around the same time and has refused to budge on it's ethos.

It was the 'English way' of playing and the FA insisted on drilling it into our youngsters, I questioned the coaches at the time (Ex pros Paul Power of Man City and Burys Andy Welsh) about it and they just shrugged and said it was the way it was.

The Crux of the matter regarding Bruce is that he's firmly set in the early 90s with his play style and I don't think he'll ever change, regardless of the talent at his disposal.

We've had a good start results wise but I have this sneaking suspicion we'll be on the end of a battering sooner rather than later if it continues, if it's at Villa Park I hope he's ready for the wrath.

[Delphinho123]

5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Hmm, ask yourself this.

Are the "some on here's" just angry because they are shit fans who are just looking for something to moan about?

OR

Are they pleased for the 2 league wins (and progression in the cup) but acknowledge and are worried about the poor style of play, tactics and performances mirroring the past 2 seasons of failure?

Ya know, because shite football eventually turns into losing football, especially against better teams, and/or lesser teams with fight and a sound manager?

Aside from common football sense dictating that better football and tactics will always eventually prevail and be more sustainable towards progress and future success?

Have you seen some of the Football Brentford play, a team with a fraction of our resources and who lose their best players almost every year?

Cue "But we spanked Wolves 4 - 1 , were 90 minutes away from promotion, and have had our best start to a season (In the Championship) in a trillion years"

Bruce produces "There or thereabouts" not because of expertise, but because of some of the pure quality we have in the team.

Stop lying to yourself and making it seem that if we thought we could guarantee promotion with this tripe we would not accept it for the greater good.

But Nah, we just want our team to lose so we can be right.

Football has moved on, and it seems some of you belong back there with Bruce.

 

Love this.

Our best start in however many years against Hull, Wigan and Yeovil and we’re supposed to ignore the fact we can’t seem to pass the ball (-Grealish) to each other.

Oh, and Yeovil and Wigan both had glorious chances to beat us. 

SHHHHHHH, EVERYTHINGS GREAT.

[Stevo985]

9 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

I’ve seen enough that I’m willing to sadly predict McGinn will “go down the pan” with Bruce in charge.   I truly hope I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure I am right.  That’s why I remain Bruce out.  

You remain Bruce Out because you're predicting a player will "go down the pan", even though it hasn't happened yet.

That's a bit strange.

[Demitri_C]

29 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You remain Bruce Out because you're predicting a player will "go down the pan", even though it hasn't happened yet.

That's a bit strange.

Nail on head

[lexicon]

 

'I shouldn't be happy because eventually we'll lose'. 

We haven't had a proper lull since the start of last season and Bruce has turned around any blips in form since then. 

He's not excellent, he's not infallible but the constant crusade to deride him at any opportunity for any perceived slight is pathetic, tiresome and utterly pointless. 

[NeilS]

Ok, I don't think anybody is 100% convinced by our start. Yes we need to improve on our performances as they have been rusty and error riddled to say the least. However 6 points on the board is a great start, and I hope that as the players start to gel and get up to speed then the performances should improve. Now, I know the fact I said gel will spark the "but he has had a pre-season to sort all that out" arguments. Well this pre-season has not been like any pre-season I can remember. The club lost half the first team as we weren't able to afford to keep on the likes of Snodgrass and Terry. So for the first two to three games we have been integrating 2-4 new players into the team, players who came back late after the world cup like BB and MJ, players returning from long term injuries, and some youth players as well. Is it any wonder we are playing a bit like strangers at the moment?

[A'Villan]

16 minutes ago, Hoof hearted said:

When I took my FA coaching badges in the mid 90s the basic premise of the course was to get the ball as fast as possible from your goal to theirs, or the 7 pass method.

There was no mention of basics like pass and move or 'triangles' if you like, now I'm assuming Bruce took it (he would have to to become a professional manager) around the same time and has refused to budge on it's ethos.

It was the 'English way' of playing and the FA insisted on drilling it into our youngsters, I questioned the coaches at the time (Ex pros Paul Power of Man City and Burys Andy Welsh) about it and they just shrugged and said it was the way it was.

The Crux of the matter regarding Bruce is that he's firmly set in the early 90s with his play style and I don't think he'll ever change, regardless of the talent at his disposal.

We've had a good start results wise but I have this sneaking suspicion we'll be on the end of a battering sooner rather than later if it continues, if it's at Villa Park I hope he's ready for the wrath.

I guess just by questioning the coaches about it you probably developed your own understanding for its strengths and weaknesses

Makes sense, all of that.

I read that the British style of direct play or long ball originates from research that was done in the 1960's and continued on.

The analysis of data results showed that the strike rate of goals from shots was higher with a direct play approach than it was from possession based play, that's why the Brits adopted it.

The research was a 'key landmark' in football analysis but only led to partial (at best) understanding of how goals were scored.

Another indication the research showed was that successful teams scored more goals per possession from longer passing sequences than short, whereas there was no clear advantage for either tactic among unsuccessful teams.

Back to Bruce, I think every coach's style is an accumulation of their experience both in football and life. Take Pochettino for example he was a CB by trade but simply due to being under the guidance of Bielsa learnt an approach that went beyond being your textbook defender and understanding of the game, and he credits Bielsa as a father figure in his success as a player and manager.

I don't pretend to know much about Bruce's history as a footballer, or the 7 pass method, but I think a defining attribute of success is an ability to be dynamic and fluid in any approach and not get tied down by doctrines.

[Vive_La_Villa]

This thread is mental. How many times can the exact same things be debated? 

Whether you are a Bruce admiror, hater or something in the middle. We all know we need some more signings or we can forget about promotion regardless of who’s in charge! 

[bobzy]

46 minutes ago, lexicon said:

 

'I shouldn't be happy because eventually we'll lose'. 

We haven't had a proper lull since the start of last season and Bruce has turned around any blips in form since then. 

He's not excellent, he's not infallible but the constant crusade to deride him at any opportunity for any perceived slight is pathetic, tiresome and utterly pointless. 

This post sums everything up very nicely.  It’s worth about 10 likes.