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Everything posted by VILLAMARV

  1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52667502
  2. This actually made me laugh out loud, which today is quite the feat. Thank you. (Also I may steal it like a good meme) It's great how flags can spell word removed these days.
  3. I think that's the key word myself. They'll pass the buck just like has already started to happen re: the post about Jeremy Hunt blaming the scientific advice in the commons. And like many on here have called from early on.
  4. Patient care pathways are boring though. It all adds up to contribute to the decisions, which all ultimately mean nothing at all if there is no room at the inn. The point (in reality) around the advice discussed yesterday is surely that once the room had been made in the system to accommodate higher numbers of admissions that the advice was withdrawn or changed and that's the thing getting lost I feel while everyone riffs off people's individual previous posts. (Including me).
  5. I genuinely don't know. And that's not to be obtuse or obstructive but, as ever, it's complicated. I don't believe you will find anything like that written on a government website if that's what you mean, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not part of any triage guidance for clinicians. If that means you can 'win' a semantic argument on the internet with someone, go ahead and claim your internet points if it serves a purpose, but individual clinicians at individual trusts may well have different guidance. Don't forget the conversation moved some time ago to one of protecting finite resources and away from care at the point of need. (Helped in no small part by the Lansley reforms but a discussion perhaps for a different time). Define 'policy'. Government advice provides a part of the framework. What should be absolutely obvious to everyone is that people, primarily the elderly, but also those with underlying health conditions, those that ambulances didn't collect (for a myriad of reasons), those who decided to not bother the nhs and stay at home, as well as those that filled out forms to say don't waste time and resource on me. Have all died. Without receiving care at the point of need. And they've done so in their thousands. Somewhere along the line triage decisions have been made in some of those cases and they will have been made, in line with guidance led policy decisions be that at government level, trust level, hospital level etc. What should also be obvious is that residents of care homes have indeed been left to fend for themselves en masse. It's borne out in the statistics as well as in individual accounts. How this all started of course, both the national situation and indeed this conversation, was off the back of the government advice that was, freeing up capacity as @LondonLax said, and as I very much agreed with. That's a strange logical conclusion to my mind.
  6. Why are you wilfully ignoring the rest of that post about how your change of tense changes the context?
  7. Hilarious. You seem intent on winning some imaginary argument. You could, if you were being genuine, actually engage with what I've said. That might get us somewhere conversationally. I am not the other posters. I have not made the claims you keep referring back to. I am not here to engage in cyclical arguments about things I didn't say. I haven't dodged anything. You appear to have conveniently glossed over the point I did make though, about different words and changing the context. Which I felt added value. Unlike this back and forth.
  8. No. What I think, is what I said. Not whatever you rephrase it as.
  9. No. What I think, is what I said. Not what you rephrase it as to suit your needs.
  10. I think the drama he's referring to involves Hillsborough, elongating the season and a last minute goal. A two goal swing in injury time is impressive. I can see both arguments.
  11. Exactly. Not a relevant question to the statement made. I suppose it's just "trivial" wording to change the word WAS to IS? I think most people will understand the importance and relevance to the point being made. The advice that was has been posted and discussed in the commons. The one you were arguing had no relevance to clinicians and triage decisions if you remember. Quite.
  12. You're arguing your point as if the thing mentioned in the commons today was the only consideration. The point of sending people out of nhs beds was to create spare capacity to treat patients. Triage decisions were made by clinicians and part of that decision was to listen to the government advice. Not only as the people overseeing the nhs but as the focal point of the entire countrys response. Older people tend to lose out in those triage decisions. And now many are dead as a result. Believe whatever you like but, again, you're oversimplifying things to argue a point from how you perceive it to be. Whether you like it or not, that website provided parts of a complicated framework for clinicians to send patients away from the care they would otherwise receive. You're now wilfully ignoring the proof of that provided for you in this thread.
  13. https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/ That's the one In my defence the link is on the original page i quoted I have multiple tabs open and i think the point has been made. It's also funny enough to stay there unedited i think Edit - I editted it a bit, but not so much as to spoil the fun we had.
  14. Enchilladas - wrong page innit
  15. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-triage-assessment-form Check the website^^^^ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/03/09/covid-19-triage-in-a-pandemic-is-even-thornier-than-you-might-think/ British medical journal there https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/23/icu-doctors-tough-decisions-coronavirus-uk
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