Steve Bruce

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Holy crap, big apologies needed here - I've only just realised I've gotten you mixed up with another poster of similar name  .  Your posts aren't that negative on the whole - may be why you became defensive after me saying you were.

Sorry Dave!

Apology accepted, but not really necessary. We’re all passionate about The Villa, and in the heat of battle it’s easy to get caught in the crossfire! 

[srsmithusa]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

You remain Bruce Out because you're predicting a player will "go down the pan", even though it hasn't happened yet.

That's a bit strange.

Actually.  A reading of my post says “I’ve seen enough” meaning since Bruce had been in charge, and that “i remain Bruce out” meaning that I was Bruce out before this player declines, not because I expect this player to decline.

But I suspect my actual meaning was clear enough.  I’ve been pretty consistent.  No changes planned based on the original posts hope that McGinn will continue to impress.  Now, if I was suddenly supporting Bruce because of a change I hoped I would see, but hasn’t happened yet, you would have a point.  

[VILLAMARV]

[Dave J]

5 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I reckon you could count on one hand how many teams have a well developed style of play in the UK.

This obsession with style has no real substance given that there's no real measure of it.

As with everything in life, people think the grass is greener on the other side.

I think it would be a real wake up call for those people if they took the time to actually watch other teams - and I'm not talking about Man City, or Liverpool, 2 of the handful of sides who do appear to have a well honed style (no coincidence they're also the 2 most expensive squads), I'm talking about Stoke, Ipswich, Burton, Middlesboro etc, teams that are actually in some way comparable with us and our current situation.

 

Again, I repeat, our biggest problem in my opinion is culture. We still have too many players who are afraid to be on the ball, they're more afraid of making a mistake than they are excited about doing something great - this comes from playing in a pressure cooker like Villa where every mistake and defeat is rounded upon with such hostility.

The culture has gotten better throughout SB's tenure, seemingly so at least. I have confidence it will continue to improve and in turn, so will we.

 

Which players might his be in your view ?

[Mazrim]

I look at other teams, see that they can take a throw in, keep the ball more than 3 passes, not get dissected with straight balls through the middle time after time, move the ball purposefully forward without kicking it 50 yards to an imaginary giant and think that we might do a bit more of that.

The grass isn't always greener. Playing sexy football doesn't guarantee results. However, can't we expect a bit better than the oafish clumsy football we see too often from Bruce's Villa? Football is supposed to be entertainment.

And while I dont think we're slacking on training I do think the value and nature of that training is questionable considering how unprepared and sloppy our players seem.

Balanced against that, and to be fair to Bruce, the preseason has been turbulent and less than ideal to say the least. I like to think things will imprive as they get into the season. I also remember how Bruce's limited tactics cost us dearly last season where more sophisticated teams like Wolves and Fulham succeeded. And Cardiff....

[TRO]

We didn't Handle QPR at home very well when  Matt Smith battered us.

[Tommo_b]

5 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

And where's the progress in that ?

Well if we are at the top end I would imagine promotion would be likely. Look I don’t particularly care if Bruce is in charge or not, but some of the things being held against are laughable. 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

Well if we are at the top end I would imagine promotion would be likely. Look I don’t particularly care if Bruce is in charge or not, but some of the things being held against are laughable. 

Not the charge of terrible football, though ?

[sheepyvillian]

15 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I agree you can only control the controllable, however you can influence those areas that you don’t actually control with good preparation. Sure when the players cross the line, it’s largely down to them, apart from tactical changes. Managers do influence games with their presence, although I think that is largely psychological. I remember a few years ago we were playing Stoke away and for some personal reason Tony Pulis couldn’t be at the game. At halftime we were 2-0 up, then Pulis showed up for the second half and they upped their game massively and we were hanging on for a 2-2 draw in the end. 

I don’t agree that no team that achieved promotion were a cut above us. I think Wolves were throughout the vast majority of the season and Fulham were after Christmas. 

We certainly treated Fulham like they were a cut above us, the way we stood off them in that dreadful play - off final.

[London Villa]

I tire of this thread. It’s just grim and makes us all look like idiots.

however I’m keen to know, would anyone be happy if Bruce was sacked / resigned tomorrow bearing in mind where we are in the season and who else would (not might, not ‘well he would come cuz we’re Aton Villa) take over.

If anyone says yes I’d automatically think what an utter ?end and if not can we just close this thread for a while and all be friends again?

[A'Villan]

13 minutes ago, London Villa said:

I tire of this thread. It’s just grim and makes us all look like idiots.

however I’m keen to know, would anyone be happy if Bruce was sacked / resigned tomorrow bearing in mind where we are in the season and who else would (not might, not ‘well he would come cuz we’re Aton Villa) take over.

If anyone says yes I’d automatically think what an utter ?end and if not can we just close this thread for a while and all be friends again?

I enjoy reading the thread, in small doses.

I think both sides of the debate have solid reasoning for their standpoint.

It's a credit to Bruce that the discussion remains alive.

[kiltorken]

I remember the O'Neil thread being quite similar a few years ago, especially in his last season. Plenty of people calling for his head, complaining about the "dire" football, not being able to control games, struggling against smaller teams etc. 

No matter who the manager or what the situation is there'll always be critics and rightly so once it doesn't go overboard. 

 

[Dave J]

19 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

and yet they finished 14 points behind us last year, Won 6 fewer games, Scored less goals and conceeded more. But they're brilliant because they pass the ball around a lot...

We already have more points than them this season after only 2 games.

It's all relative in terms of resource though - I think many of us feel Bruce has underachieved with what's been made available to him - how many think Dean Smith is underachieving ? Whilst having also to sell his best players 

[DaveAV1]

7 hours ago, London Villa said:

I tire of this thread. It’s just grim and makes us all look like idiots.

however I’m keen to know, would anyone be happy if Bruce was sacked / resigned tomorrow bearing in mind where we are in the season and who else would (not might, not ‘well he would come cuz we’re Aton Villa) take over.

If anyone says yes I’d automatically think what an utter ?end and if not can we just close this thread for a while and all be friends again?

How would anyone know the answer to a hypothetical question? The answers will always inevitably be might, nobody could say would, unless they’re the person who wants the job. Pepe, I know you’re always on VT........

[Lord Willard]

 

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

It's all relative in terms of resource though - I think many of us feel Bruce has underachieved with what's been made available to him - how many think Dean Smith is underachieving ? Whilst having also to sell his best players 

Dean Smith isn't a manager though... just a face to Brentford's system. 

Our villa engine has blown and needs new parts before you can even consider putting back together.

[PieFacE]

I think given the choice I'd keep Bruce now for the remainder of the season, and in the very likely event of failing promotion and then losing Grealish, I'd bring in a different manager with a 5 year plan to change the style of play. 

Even if we did get promoted, what then? We'll likely come straight back down playing this brand of football just like Cardiff will. Football has moved on. 

 

[DaveAV1]

I keep hearing this argument that Dean Smith is just the face of some tactical coaching super group. Whether this is true or not I have no idea, nor do I know what the difference is from their coaching set up than anyone else’s. However if this is the case, would it not be possible, if the board consider Smith as an option, to just hire the whole set up? Most managers like to bring their own coaching staff with them anyway. 

[A'Villan]

27 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

I think given the choice I'd keep Bruce now for the remainder of the season, and in the very likely event of failing promotion and then losing Grealish, I'd bring in a different manager with a 5 year plan to change the style of play. 

Even if we did get promoted, what then? We'll likely come straight back down playing this brand of football just like Cardiff will. Football has moved on. 

 

I'll nitpick here, but first point will be to say I have no problem with your idea, with one exception.

Why wait and lose your best asset, failing to obtain your objective in the process, when the plan is to move on regardless?

[Stevo985]

38 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

I think given the choice I'd keep Bruce now for the remainder of the season, and in the very likely event of failing promotion and then losing Grealish, I'd bring in a different manager with a 5 year plan to change the style of play. 

Even if we did get promoted, what then? We'll likely come straight back down playing this brand of football just like Cardiff will. Football has moved on. 

 

Our football and Cardiff's football are not the same.

Cardiff play football the way people on here like to accuse Bruce of playing football.

I'm not saying we'd do amazingly in the Prem. But IF we got promoted this season, I'd be fairly confident Bruce would keep us up.

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Our football and Cardiff's football are not the same.

Cardiff play football the way people on here like to accuse Bruce of playing football.

I'm not saying we'd do amazingly in the Prem. But IF we got promoted this season, I'd be fairly confident Bruce would keep us up.

Although I didn’t watch Cardiff too much when I did I didn’t think their style was too dissimilar to ours.  It was a containing game with attacks on the break. Also making good use of set pieces. 

They just did it slightly better than us. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa