Steve Bruce

[NurembergVillan]

5 hours ago, briny_ear said:

But we didn’t.

I think that’s a big difference from last season. We may well have lost all 3 games last season but we may now have a new resilience.

Sure, “style of play” is rubbish, I’ve been battered enough by the tsunami of posts about this on Villatalk to acknowledge quite happily that we are the poorest team in the league and we don’t deserve to have won any matches.

But somehow we did, and we won our league matches by scoring a lot of goals.

So that makes me happy. 

I'm happy that we've won 3 games.  Who wouldn't be?  Except Thierry Henry if you believed the rumours...

It's telling that we've scored a lot of goals in the league yet we've never looked comfortable in victory.  If I was that way inclined I could say we've shipped 3 in 2 games against (supposedly) inferior opposition.

I want Bruce to succeed.  I like him as a man, I think he's had a massive positive impact in changing attitudes around the club, and I think he really cares (as opposed to some of our other managers in the recent past who didn't appear to give a toss).

I just want us to look less haphazard in being successful.  The three teams who were promoted ahead of us last season strengthened their squads and still got taught a lesson about how hard the PL is at the weekend.  Making a fist of beating Wigan at home doesn't make me feel like we're a PL team in waiting.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Although we have 6 points we all if know if the performances don’t massively improve we will have a real rude awakening during that hard run of games in the winter.  It’s the kind of run that could have losing several games in a row and Bruce getting the chop.

As everybody keeps saying (including me ) we are 2, 3 players short of being the real deal. Weaknesses and squad dept in certain areas is too apparent. Bruce knows this and the clock is ticking. 

As for yesterday, it was very poor. But it was also 10 changes from the game before. I wouldn’t read too much in to it. Also it’s not really one you can use to beat Bruce up with in my opinion. 

[Hoof hearted]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Although we have 6 points we all if know if the performances don’t massively improve we will have a real rude awakening during that hard run of games in the winter.  It’s the kind of run that could have losing several games in a row and Bruce getting the chop.

As everybody keeps saying (including me ) we are 2, 3 players short of being the real deal. Weaknesses and squad dept in certain areas is too apparent. Bruce knows this and the clock is ticking. 

As for yesterday, it was very poor. But it was also 10 changes from the game before. I wouldn’t read too much in to it. Also it’s not really one you can use to beat Bruce up with in my opinion. 

I'm not that worried about the "harder" games, last season proved (bar the Play off final) that our players up their game against the better teams, it's the games against the likes of Wigan we struggle, and that's down to the manager and coaching staff to get them ready/hyped to play Rotherham away as well as West Brom at home. 

QPR after the Wolves game last season is a perfect example and I blame Bruce and no one else for it.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Hoof hearted

[villa89]

Far too many people just looking at the results and the 3 from 3 and assuming everything is okay. Unfortunately performances are a much better indicator of future results and the performances against Wigan and to a lesser extent Yeovil have to leave you worried about our promotion chances. So far I think we look like a team that will finish 3rd - 6th which, again, is not good enough. With the FFP issues and Grealish certain to leave if we don't get promoted we need to get to the top of the table and stay there all season.  

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Hoof hearted said:

I'm not that worried about the "harder" games, last season proved (bar the Play off final) that our players up their game against the better teams, it's the games against the likes of Wigan we struggle, and that's down to the manager and coaching staff to get them ready/hyped to play Rotherham away as well as West Brom at home. 

QPR after the Wolves game last season is a perfect example and I blame Bruce and no one else for it.

We were able to up our game at home but got schooled away to Wolves, Cardiff, Fulham, Derby and Brentford. 

I know what you mean though. We never knew which Villa was going to turn up. Whenever it felt like we were unbeatable a QPR and Norwich type performance followed.

[VillaCas]

4 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

I want Bruce to succeed.  I like him as a man, I think he's had a massive positive impact in changing attitudes around the club, and I think he really cares (as opposed to some of our other managers in the recent past who didn't appear to give a toss).

We can all tend to get a little a bit carried away here, both in criticism and in support of Bruce.  The truth of the matter is that SB is a decent, if limited manager and with the resources at his disposal will have us competitive - the argument is one of degrees.  Some would be happy to be in and around the play-off positions, others feel that automatic promotion is required given the depth and quality of our squad .v. competitors.

I said two years ago that I don't think SB will be able to get us out of this league and said the same this time last year. The only thing that has changed for me now is that we look slightly weaker (despite our record-breaking start!)

I believe that the new owners will be putting in place plans to bring their own man in, maybe as soon as before Christmas. 

It will be easier to judge once we've come up against a couple of decent sides (and once Bruce has bought in his loanees, although it frustrating that three years in we are relying on loanees to fill vital first team positions) but I'm more certain that we are not going up this season than previously

 

 

[villa89]

2 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I believe that the new owners will be putting in place plans to bring their own man in, maybe as soon as before Christmas. 

If we do change managers this season we can't leave it until it's too late. 

[DaveAV1]

I’ve just read Bruce’s post match comments. He is being praised for being brutally honest, which it would be hard not to be after the reportedly very poor performance. 

What I find out of order is the fact he manages to distance himself from any responsibility and puts the blame largely down to the kids that played. I didn’t see it but from what I’ve read and talking to people who saw the game, virtually nobody played well, but Tuanzebe was one of the better players, whilst his experienced defensive partner Elphick was one of the worst. 

He just doesn’t trust young players and uses any excuse he can to justify playing older players. Good man management? Not if you’re under 21. 

[osmark86]

One of the most glaring problems we have right now is that we are not mobile enough. We're making it so difficult for ourselves finding options to pass to which hampers the speed at which we can break. I believe this could be rectified quite easily by enforcing a style where at least one or two players follow the player with the ball giving him options. A player should always be able to find someone to pass in order to advance and in case you get closed down, a defensive pass. there are so many times where the only available pass is the defensive one over large distances. no wonder a lot of players decide to go for a hoof to a more advanced position. the problem is that this generally ends up with the receiving player either losing the ball entirely or becoming isolated since we rarely press after such a pass.

you could see that Grealish ran back to the defense yesterday to more or less collect the ball from the back and moving it up himself. people complained about him being too far back at times, but I understand why he did it. this is a problem that we need to address immediately if we are to gain any semblance of form with the ball. I know that this frustrates Bruce as well since he has made it clear that we don't move enough. I wonder why it is not improving though. Is it:

1) the players lack in confidence, ability, won't follow instructions?

2) the players do not have clear instructions from the manager what to do off the ball?

either way you answer that, this needs to be rectified and that falls on Bruce and his coaches. we will be found out by other teams this season unless we improve here. I don't think we're as strong defensively this year as demonstrated by these initial three games (I hope we fix this asap!), so we won't be bailed out by a metaphorical wall as much. I'm willing to give it a few more games to see how some of the new players bed in, but even this will only prolong the inevitable heartache of missing out on promotion most likely imo unless we address the issue of how we move as a unit. I'm not very convinced anymore that Bruce et al are able to achieve this however.

[bobzy]

Just now, Dick said:

Wait. He said he read them. Do they only exist when spoken? What an odd thing to argue.

What are you on about?  He said he read comments but didn't see the game at all.  How would you know whether comments were right, wrong, spot on, way out of order etc if you've got nothing to base them on?

Not even an argument.  Just a statement of fact.

[MarkLillis]

51 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

2) the players do not have clear instructions from the manager what to do off the ball?

I have a lot of faith in Steve Bruce and the way he builds a team.

We should have a certain type of player at Villa, recent managers have not understood this.

However I believe he is very much of the opinion that "players win you games" and the players are expected to be able to see problems arising and adjust to them as and when they happen.

If this is true and their are only guidelines from the management team not clear instructions on what they should do for every period during the game rather than clear rigid instructions, then we have a problem as players on the pitch are not reacting when patterns of play change.

[Dodgyknees]

Ipswich next?

Fingers crossed we go at them, they look weak. 

Hope Bruce gets us playing the ball through the middle, less of the long balls for players to knock down (it's an ok tactic but not constant) and I want us to take control of the game. No more running after the opposition.

Kodjia to score a brace.

[bobzy]

Just now, Dick said:

Ipswich next?

Fingers crossed we go at them, they look weak. 

Hope Bruce gets us playing the ball through the middle, less of the long balls for players to knock down (it's an ok tactic but not constant) and I want us to take control of the game. No more running after the opposition.

Kodjia to score a brace.

Ipswich do look pretty terrible.  The problem will be if we try to play counter-attacking football, which Bruce seems to enjoy more, than controlling the game as you say.  Would hope for a comfortable 2-0 win.

[Dodgyknees]

Just now, bobzy said:

Ipswich do look pretty terrible.  The problem will be if we try to play counter-attacking football, which Bruce seems to enjoy more, than controlling the game as you say.  Would hope for a comfortable 2-0 win.

I don't mind counter attacking football, when it suits the game. We need to mix it up a bit more, especially with players like McGinn, Green and Grealish, we really have to use the ball and make them chase us. We will tire them out, score goals, then catch them in the break. 

[villabromsgrove]

I watched the match last night and it was another good example of our total lack of an ingrained system. The young lads don't have the experience to make it up as they go along. They need to play within a supported framework. They need to know where their team mates are going to be with and without the ball. There is none of this with a Steve Bruce team.

De Laet looked totally frustrated each time he tried to take a throw in because there's absolutely no positive movement to receive the ball .... as usual. Hepburn-Murphy (on his full debut) was the latest striker to suffer as a lone isolated figure, spending 70 minutes on his own being bullied by two big CB's. He was totally hung out to dry by Bruce's negative 'non set up' .... Nothing changes!

Yet it was the young players who were blamed by Bruce for a lack lustre performance.

Nothing to do with you Steve? Nothing to do with your total inability to coach a style of play that these young players can seamlessly fit into?

It's unacceptable for a manager to distance himself from the performance, and then put the blame on 'kids' by saying "I've told them I won't accept that"!

The buck stops with our highly paid manager.

[Dodgyknees]

Yeah we do lack a system and a style. It's one of my criticisms of Bruce. Two years and still we rely on chance and luck a lot. As shown last season, that can cost us.

I'm hoping the new owners might put things in place to build a proper structure and they talk with Bruce about our style, it will cost us because we can't keep playing this way and getting results. Happy with three wins though, no complaints there. Just concerned it will go wrong again and there is no plan B.

[grayslickuk]

Totally agree @villabromsgrove

We don't have a system or a style of playing. There is no way those 11 player had worked together in a match scenario before they trotted on that pitch last night.

Its ridiculous, not a Bruce hater but this cannot continue if we're looking to progress forward.

[osmark86]

12 minutes ago, MarkLillis said:

I have a lot of faith in Steve Bruce and the way he builds a team.

We should have a certain type of player at Villa, recent managers have not understood this.

However I believe he is very much of the opinion that "players win you games" and the players are expected to be able to see problems arising and adjust to them as and when they happen.

If this is true and their are only guidelines from the management team not clear instructions on what they should do for every period during the game rather than clear rigid instructions, then we have a problem as players on the pitch are not reacting when patterns of play change.

I agree. I think it might be time to start giving more clear instructions to the players as they do not seem to be synchronizing well enough on their own accord (assuming this is the case ofc). I think we could benefit from having our players drilled at how to move when off the ball and where to expect passes or expect players to be able to receive passes should be etc. players will ultimately make their own decisions on the field, but if they know where to expect a team mate to be then we will reduce the time they have to react to a given situation. it's better to know alternatives beforehand than having to assess every single time.

[bobzy]

9 minutes ago, Dick said:

I don't mind counter attacking football, when it suits the game. We need to mix it up a bit more, especially with players like McGinn, Green and Grealish, we really have to use the ball and make them chase us. We will tire them out, score goals, then catch them in the break. 

Same - counter-attacking football is fine, but wasted against a side like Ipswich.  Against Leeds or Brentford or a team which will generally retain the ball and work openings, sure, be solid defensively and spring counter attacks.  Ipswich aren't like that, though.

[Dodgyknees]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Same - counter-attacking football is fine, but wasted against a side like Ipswich.  Against Leeds or Brentford or a team which will generally retain the ball and work openings, sure, be solid defensively and spring counter attacks.  Ipswich aren't like that, though.

Completely agree.

I think if we control the game against Ipswich, we will pick holes and get chances, keep on the front foot, keep the ball. Let our quality players use their abilities. Perfect game for Kodjia too, get him in the box and scoring, get his confidence up.