meme Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Just now, ender4 said: has anyone ever failed the fit and proper person test? i think everyone passes! Some people haven't passed, but fair to say Small Heath's Carson Yeong and a certain future Thailand dictator who has a very large name did both somehow manage to pass it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ender4 said: has anyone ever failed the fit and proper person test? i think everyone passes! A handful of people have. This guy isn't going to, as long as he doesn't have an unspent conviction in China. The criteria are here. Edited May 20, 2016 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted May 20, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2016 Why are people getting their damn knickers in a twist!???!? Richard got it spot on earlier (maybe in this thread or one of the other overlapping ones) that it has to be approached with cautious optimism. The reality is that yes it's right that we know very little. He has given a short interview and that's about it. The FT articles (the one when the takeover was announced too) both came across as slapdash and IMO felt like they were trying to dig or find fault in it. Even they had very little information. Speaking to a guy called Jin or whatever is very little to go on. Ok they tweaked the post on the OS site but I think a conversation that "we are going to have major holdings in 5 companies shortly" could be easily be misinterpreted as "have major holdings". It could be as simple as that. The articles come across as an axe to grind about the fact its financial stuff and they know **** all about it! Could be as petty as that! And the whole damn professor hing. I haven't seen the original point, but being the son of a professor of he was one he would damn well be going by Professor Xia rather than Dr Xia. So it's pretty **** obvious he is NOT a professor. People seriously need to get a grip. We have gone from no future to uncertain future. Yes there are risks along the way and there is a lot to be done but I for one am pleased to get out of the **** malaise that has happened over the last 5 years. Whether it turns out to be smelling of **** roses I don't know but I remain CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thomas Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) 32 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: No, but I am suggesting that the financial times is a serious newspaper and that when they question the propriety of some bloke nobody on here had ever heard of 72 hours ago it's worth listening to what they have to say. Without going into it all the FT found inconsistencies with the OS statement and Hollis' statement - there is nothing particularly damming about the owner other than one, of his many companies, made a loss last year - $70m. While everyone sees that loss as a negative (which it obviously is for the firm) it is worth noting that here is a guy or group that just lost $70m in one of their companies and they can still go ahead and buy AVFC (convincing Hollis and Co), while also acquiring the controlling interests in more listed firms! That doesn't suggest he is short of a few bob! To me it is clear he made his fortune from the huge regeneration in China. It says as much on the OS and this seems to be backed up by one of his company's websites and projects (link). There's nothing in the FT that disputes this or suggests he is not a bona fide investor - they just saw inconsistencies with the OS and rightly jumped on it. Edit. I am also cautiously excited and optimistic for the future. Edited May 20, 2016 by Gary Thomas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted May 20, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: A handful of people have. This guy isn't going to. The criteria are here. Having an exceptionally quick look at this, it appears to be more about whether they have criminal record, been barred from running a company etc. It has nothing to do with real financial intentions or where the money comes from. From what seen and heard from the info that has been disclosed I think he is passing this with flying colours so those thinking he isn't fit and proper don't hold your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Just now, cyrusr said: Having an exceptionally quick look at this, it appears to be more about whether they have criminal record, been barred from running a company etc. It has nothing to do with real financial intentions or where the money comes from. From what seen and heard from the info that has been disclosed I think he is passing this with flying colours so those thinking he isn't fit and proper don't hold your breath. When Samuelson picks out frontmen he doesn't pick ones that won't be considered credible. The parallels with Reading are shocking to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted May 20, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said: Without going into it all the FT found inconsistencies with the OS statement and Hollis' statement - there is nothing particularly damming about the owner other than one, of his many companies, made a loss last year - $70m. While everyone sees that loss as a negative (which it obviously is for the firm) it is worth noting that here is a guy or group that just lost $70m in one of their companies and they can still go ahead and buy AVFC (convincing Hollis and Co), while also acquiring the controlling interests in more listed firms! That doesn't suggest he is short of a few bob! The £70m loss thing is not something to be overtly worried about. Any company could post a loss, it depends on what the full accounts say and what is forecasted to happen in future. The size of the company is also very relevant. For instance, Tesco posted a loss of £6.4 BILLION in 2015. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 20, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2016 14 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Why are people getting their damn knickers in a twist!???!? Because this is VillaTalk and everything has to be terrible all the time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 18 minutes ago, cyrusr said: professor hing Who's he? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted May 20, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said: Without going into it all the FT found inconsistencies with the OS statement and Hollis' statement - there is nothing particularly damming about the owner other than one, of his many companies, made a loss last year - $70m. While everyone sees that loss as a negative (which it obviously is for the firm) it is worth noting that here is a guy or group that just lost $70m in one of their companies and they can still go ahead and buy AVFC (convincing Hollis and Co), while also acquiring the controlling interests in more listed firms! That doesn't suggest he is short of a few bob! To me it is clear he made his fortune from the huge regeneration in China. It says as much on the OS and this seems to be backed up by one of his company's websites and projects (link). There's nothing in the FT that disputes this or suggests he is not a bona fide investor - they just saw inconsistencies with the OS and rightly jumped on it. You're right, the FT article doesn't specifically accuse him of wrongdoing and reading my post back it contains that implication, so I'm wrong to say that. What the FT article does do, I think, is raise serious questions about how much we know about this guy and points out several major discrepancies in what we've been told. You're right that these mistakes could come from Hollis or the OS (which makes it surprising to me when you say it's clear to you how he made his fortune and then you quote the OS as a source on that) but whoever they come from they exist and that to me is a very worrying sign when the ink isn't even dry on the deal yet. We wouldn't be the first club to be bought by a businessman for whom the rhetoric doesn't meet the reality, and we wouldn't be the last either. I often find that people who promise the world are the least capable of offering even minor improvements (and what is promising to be the 3rd biggest club in the world within ten years if not promising the world?) and those negative priors are not helped by the fact that a large portion of what we've been told so far has been mistaken at best, deliberately misleading at worst. I'll wait until the club and Xia at least get close to getting their story straight before I crack open the champagne. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Because this is VillaTalk and everything has to be terrible all the time. But of course we would say that, because we have our heads in the clouds with blind optimism. If we were clever, we'd be negative and overly sceptical, to save causing ourselves disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 We wouldn't be the first club to be bought by a businessman for whom the rhetoric doesn't meet the reality, and we wouldn't be the last either. Indeed. It happened to Villa, in fact, in 2006. [emoji53] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamsonwoodVillan Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) The official website has updated the Sale Confirmed news page to say that Recon owns 'shares, both directly and indirectly, in several companies'. I think it's more an oversight by the club than deliberately pulling the wool over eyes. In reality I would think Recon own a great deal of stakes in these firms but shouldn't be claiming that they legally own them. I hardly think the bloke is dodgy. They just worded it wrong. The only niggle I would have is Xia's personal wealth is probably lower than predicted. Funds will come from his businesses, so he will need the ok from other investors/shareholders to an extent Edited May 20, 2016 by DamsonwoodVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said: When Samuelson picks out frontmen he doesn't pick ones that won't be considered credible. The parallels with Reading are shocking to be honest. The parallels with Reading are bloody terryfying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I feel like my book has a few chapters missing. Who the **** is Chris Samuelson, and how do we know he is involved in this deal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 20, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, KHV said: The parallels with Reading are bloody terryfying Having only done some scant research on Samuelson he is indeed one dodgy mo-fo. He is a Swiss financier and his worst crime was at Reading as a director, by introducing a loan shark who in return for lending takes the guaranteed TV money, or parachute payment as security. When they called in the loan they effectively had Reading by the balls and were able to call the shots on player sales - and so were running the club but having never taken the proper persons test. He then also is close to the Phoenix consortium who he then tried to purchase Reading with, but failed. He's not been officially confirmed as being involved, it is just thought that he is and that shirt in that picture probably tells us he has assisted. So the fear now is that he is behind some money lending scheme again, and will run Villa into the ground to line his own pockets. That is terrifying indeed. However, for this to be the case, Dr Tony has to be a stooge, and I just don;t believe that he is. It's possibly more the case that Samuelson's unique skill set has been very useful when it comes to structuring cash flow out of China. We just don;t know, but it doesn't feel to me like a Samuelson engineered takeover, the significance of China and their world football domination plans in all this far outweighs that likelyhood. Edited May 20, 2016 by Jareth 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I was rather looking forward to hearing the intentions of where the first win is coming from.....instead I hear comments that the intentions are for us to be the 3rd biggest club in world football. forgive my scepticism of the whole thing......I understand that things can be lost in translation. Any well intented person would make it their business to substantiate their ambition....lets see if any substance materialises to allay any fears. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The thought of Samuelson being involved makes me shit scared of what could happen. What we're being told about Xia and the Recon Group doesn't seem to add up either. Forgive me if im incredibly sceptical about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I still think Dr T is a genuine guy. I just need more input over the coming weeks to settle my rattled nerves. He promised more communication from the club under his watch and I look forward to him seeing through on that promise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Samuelson's apparent involvement is an enormous reg flag, absolutely enormous! My gut feeling tells me that this is going to end in some serious tears. This is an outrageously dodgy set of circumstances we find ourselves in as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts