Sam-AVFC Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 hours ago, villalad21 said: He is great coming off the bench. You need squad players like Keinan who can come on and make an impact. I like the guy, but has he ever come on in a game that we've gone on to improve our position in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Needs games. Needs to stay fit. Needs minutes. Needs goals. Needs to be the main man. I dont see any situation where he isnt loaned out this season. We will and have to sign 2 strikers. He has a future here but he needs to prove himself and string together 90 minutes 3 times a week. He will develop and fly if he can do that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: Needs games. Needs to stay fit. Needs minutes. Needs goals. Needs to be the main man. I dont see any situation where he isnt loaned out this season. We will and have to sign 2 strikers. He has a future here but he needs to prove himself and string together 90 minutes 3 times a week. He will develop and fly if he can do that. I think you have a valid point. I like him and I don't want to give up on him.....but we can't wait forever. This league don't wait for anyone, its ruthless......we have to match it in everything we do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 18 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Did you watch Burnley away last season? Did you think Wesley was **** in that match? Our strikers scored in the grand total of six league matches last season. It was a minor miracle we actually finished 17th. Southampton were down there with us for 3/4 of the season with Ings scoring 20. We need way better upfront if we're to do anything but battle relegation every single year (and even that is no guarentee given we had three relegation battles when Benteke was scoring 20). I think Davis does need a loan. Should've had one last year. Yeah we can keep him around but a) no one would take us seriously if we said we were going to massively improve on last season and then had a guy who hasn't scored since 2017 as our starting striker and b) can't see how he'd kick on just getting 15 minutes in games when he could be starting 30 + games in the division below which he would at Preston. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Our strikers scored in the grand total of six league matches last season. It was a minor miracle we actually finished 17th. Southampton were down there with us for 3/4 of the season with Ings scoring 20. We need way better upfront if we're to do anything but battle relegation every single year (and even that is no guarentee given we had three relegation battles when Benteke was scoring 20). I think Davis does need a loan. Should've had one last year. Yeah we can keep him around but a) no one would take us seriously if we said we were going to massively improve on last season and then had a guy who hasn't scored since 2017 as our starting striker and b) can't see how he'd kick on just getting 15 minutes in games when he could be starting 30 + games in the division below which he would at Preston. Question : Chris, knowing how important the striker is........would you spend half the budget to get a good one? Edited August 17, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, TRO said: Question : Chris, knowing how important the striker is........would you spend half the budget to get a good one? I'd get another good AM in to take the load off Grealish, either a quick wide player or a Rashica type. Actually probably both. It's tricky with strikers. They go for so much now and we don't exactly have a great record signing them since the mid 90s and Collymore. I thought West Ham signing Seb Haller for 40m last summer would be a great pick up as I saw him a few times for Frankfurt and he looked made for premier league but he's badly flopped. Personally I'd play safe and get in an experienced player from abroad on season long loan. Someone not playing but who's proved they can score or wants to come back to the premier league. For forward options this summer I'd be more than happy with Rashica, Rondon (loan), Watkins and then a wide player. Would give us far more options than last season and also mean our weaknesses at the other end wouldn't be as exposed as we'd have far more of the ball and be on the front foot. People will probably turn up their noses at Rondon but in 18/19 at Newcastle he scored 11 goals in about 30 games and he's the sort who'll work hard for the team and bring the midfielders into the game, everything we want Davis to be now. He helps us get into the giddy heights of mid table and then we're in a much better position to attract a better striker next summer as then we'll be targeting pushing for europe. Let's remember Wolves initally got someone like Jimenez on a season long loan. He was great for them and so they got him full time for 20m. I'm surprised we don't do that more considering the obscene money we've wasted in that position in last 20 years. Not signing Tammy full time was just incredible bad luck. Edit: Getting in Carew in Jan 2007 was massive signing in the early MON reign. Really changed perceptions of us and suddenly we looked a club massively on the up and he played his part in us finishing 6th over the next few seasons. Probably the last major european signing we made. He was out of favour at Lyon at the time so those sorts are out there. I'd love someone like Alex Isak. He's going to be huge in two years. If I was going to offer 40-50m for someone it would be him and Real Sociedad would probably take that but think Dortmund have a buy back option. Edited August 17, 2020 by VillaChris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I don't see anything that impressive about KD, Can someone explain what makes him worth keeping? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramshackler Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 @VillaChris Rondon is a great shout. I agree about the risks signing strikers. If you can add quality on the wings and midfield then a beast like Rondon will work wonders. Only issue is didn't he go to one of the oil states on some insane weekly wage?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2020 19 hours ago, villalad21 said: He is great coming off the bench. You need squad players like Keinan who can come on and make an impact. Only he doesn’t make an impact really. I’m not sure we will see him play in the first team again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Only he doesn’t make an impact really. I’m not sure we will see him play in the first team again. Bringing him on is a bit like throwing dog in the middle of a crowd of birds. The dog runs after the birds, the birds scattter a bit and it looks like something might happen but when all is said and done what is there to show for it? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Guess I'm in the minority, but I really see a lot of potential in the kid. His pressing and hold-up play is really good and feel the goals will eventually come. Had he scored against Arsenal, think the opinions on him would be quite different. We'll need at least 3 strikers on the squad and think he slots in well as the third one after Wes and a potential new signing. On the other hand - I see no qualities in Samatta that would lead me to believe he can be a successful PL striker. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, nepal_villan said: Guess I'm in the minority, but I really see a lot of potential in the kid. His pressing and hold-up play is really good and feel the goals will eventually come. Had he scored against Arsenal, think the opinions on him would be quite different. We'll need at least 3 strikers on the squad and think he slots in well as the third one after Wes and a potential new signing. On the other hand - I see no qualities in Samatta that would lead me to believe he can be a successful PL striker. I think many of us see the potential. The trouble is that he has not delivered yet. He just doesn't look like scoring. I can't see how as third or fourth choice he is going to get the game time to start scoring and get his confidence in front of goal firing. Send him on loan and hope that he starts most matches, hits the net a few times and see his confidence grow. If that happens then we should be able to recall him and hopefully he will do it on the big stage. If he can't score in the lower leagues then I think we have a different answer and either we need to train him in another position or give him more time away until either he does or he moves on permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, allani said: I think many of us see the potential. The trouble is that he has not delivered yet. He just doesn't look like scoring. I can't see how as third or fourth choice he is going to get the game time to start scoring and get his confidence in front of goal firing. Send him on loan and hope that he starts most matches, hits the net a few times and see his confidence grow. If that happens then we should be able to recall him and hopefully he will do it on the big stage. If he can't score in the lower leagues then I think we have a different answer and either we need to train him in another position or give him more time away until either he does or he moves on permanently. How many start did he have? Who were it against? Then how many times he had chances compared to Samatta for example? I could remember more then 4-5 which he could’ve scored. Can’t remember any for Samatta although he started more especially against easier opponents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 20 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said: I like the guy, but has he ever come on in a game that we've gone on to improve our position in? Is that really true, I thought post lockdown he had quite a positive impact from the bench. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 7 hours ago, VillaChris said: Our strikers scored in the grand total of six league matches last season. It was a minor miracle we actually finished 17th. Southampton were down there with us for 3/4 of the season with Ings scoring 20. We need way better upfront if we're to do anything but battle relegation every single year (and even that is no guarentee given we had three relegation battles when Benteke was scoring 20). I think Davis does need a loan. Should've had one last year. Yeah we can keep him around but a) no one would take us seriously if we said we were going to massively improve on last season and then had a guy who hasn't scored since 2017 as our starting striker and b) can't see how he'd kick on just getting 15 minutes in games when he could be starting 30 + games in the division below which he would at Preston. 6 league goals is a poor return but it’s easy to forget that we were a newly promoted team and our number one striker picked up a serious injury that is he is still recovering from. We were always going to struggle to replace the goals that Tammy Abraham scored for us, although they were in The Championship. On the other hand, I saw enough from Wesley last season to see that he can score goals and bully opposition defences. Wesley was always going to need time to settle in to a new country and surroundings. I expect Wesley to score more next season if there are no hitches from the recovery from injury, the same goes for Joelinton at Newcastle and Sebastien Haller at West Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 To me his impact is similar to jedinak in the promotion season. He can hold the ball up the top end of the pitch ...its an outlet when we are holding a lead towards the end of the game. His poacher ability however is close to zero. Let's not forget he cost us nothing .and I doubt we would get much should we decide to sell him. Obviously if we sign origi and Watkins then it's difficult to see a role for him ....but whether he stays or goes imo depends how many strikers we sign. As things stand, wesley is 1st striker and then it's a very tough call between samatta and Davis.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just now, hippo said: To me his impact is similar to jedinak in the promotion season. He can hold the ball up the top end of the pitch ...its an outlet when we are holding a lead towards the end of the game. His poacher ability however is close to zero. Let's not forget he cost us nothing .and I doubt we would get much should we decide to sell him. Obviously if we sign origi and Watkins then it's difficult to see a role for him ....but whether he stays or goes imo depends how many strikers we sign. As things stand, wesley is 1st striker and then it's a very tough call between samatta and Davis.. Do you think we have enough money for Watkins and Origi? I’d love to sign either of them. I don’t think Davis should be written off yet, he has shown what he can do in his sub cameos for me. Davis just needs a league goal to go in off his shin and then he’ll get more confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 31 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Is that really true, I thought post lockdown he had quite a positive impact from the bench. I remember him coming on and holding the ball up well too, but I can't for the life of me ever remember us turning a game around after he came on. It might have just slipped my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 34 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said: How many start did he have? Who were it against? Then how many times he had chances compared to Samatta for example? I could remember more then 4-5 which he could’ve scored. Can’t remember any for Samatta although he started more especially against easier opponents. Not sure what Samatta has to do with the price of fish. Sticking with Davis - he played in 24 matches and scored 1 goal last season (against Crewe) which is a goal every 820 minutes. (Last season Samatta scored 12 at a strike rate of 1 every 281 minutes mainly against opponents a step or two above Crewe). We can't rely on that as a third (or even fourth) striker - especially if we are only playing 1 up front. Get him out on loan where he is playing the likes of Crewe every week and hopefully he will improve his shooting / scoring prowess and come back in January or in the summer full of confidence to take on PL defenders. I just don't see how he will get that sitting on the bench or playing in the reserves. Hopefully a few months of playing regularly and scoring regularly will do him the world of good. He could become a real asset but at the same time he is 22 now (only 4 months younger than Tammy Abraham) and so he needs to prove himself somewhere pretty quickly (look how much confidence Tammy took into the start of last season after his time at Villa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: Bringing him on is a bit like throwing dog in the middle of a crowd of birds. The dog runs after the birds, the birds scattter a bit and it looks like something might happen but when all is said and done what is there to show for it? Bird lime.? Edited August 17, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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