The Randy Lerner thread

[HanoiVillan]

On 12/12/2015 at 14:20, blandy said:

Unfortunately, that's the case for most clubs. A handful aim to win it, a few more aim to finish top 4 and the rest aim to not get relegated. That's the nature of the league. And to be honest it's not that much different in the championship - a few aim to win, a bunch aim to get in the play offs and hope to wing it through, and a few aim to stay up.

I agree that the level of "ambition" shown by Villa is basically nil, and that's Randy's doing in large part, but part of that situation is caused by the nature of the league and the obsession with money all the clubs feel they need to have. It's less spot and more business. He tried the "gamble a whole ton of money" approach and it didn't come off, and now he's doing the "just stay up" approach (badly).

I agree - with caveats - with the rest of this post, but not the bolded part. Bournemouth prove that it is possible to win the Championship when nobody expects you to, in a way that really isn't true in the PL. 

[Villarocker]

I feel NO pity for this waste of space. He's a billionaire so who cares if he loses 100 or so mill on us? He'll be safe in the knowledge that he's got another 900+ million to heel the wounds whilst us fans are spending our hard earned wages to watch piles of shite play against the likes of Rotherham and MK Dons on a Friday night. 

[mikeyp102]

I've always thought that historically Spurs, Everton and Villa are all similar size clubs in terms of ambition, structure, development etc. They were always the clubs who may win something occasionally, but normally compete just outside of the top spots. The way this club has been run the last few years, I'd say we are now 10 yrs behind the likes of those clubs and are more comparable to Coventry/Wigan when they were in the prem, we are now talked about as the team that must go down eventually.

 

I see a piss poor squad that has very few alternative styles of play, and a definite lack of quality.

Only one man can be culpable and that's the clown at the top. Thanks a lot Randy for destroying the club I love.

[andym]

He's an utter failure who was fortunate enough to inherit wealth from his dad. 

Pretty clear the business acumen of Al Lerner was not passed on to his son.

[Hanky]

Lerner has completed ruined the football club. In fact, what we've witnessed this season can barely be described as football. This has come from years of mistakes from the clowns that are running the show down there. Thanks a lot Randy.

[Spoony]

He has totally destroyed this club.

[maqroll]

The "Five Year Plan" was essentially hire O'Neill and hope that he got us into the Champions League money.

No Plan B.

Any business person, be they a corporate executive or kebab stand operator, needs to have a contingency plan when things don't go as hoped. 

Lerner is no businessman, he's a hobbyist. 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, maqroll said:

As for MON to take more blame than the other managers, clearly yes. MON was the only one of them who was given respectable money to spend and he completely **** things up by buying crap players on insane wages, and subsequently put the club in a hole it's still digging out from. The rest of the managers just tried to tread water. Had MON spent wisely with an eye to the future, we might be in the Champions League right now.

**** Martin O'Neill

I wouldn't bother trying to explain......"he's not there so how can it be his fault"

off this site, I am pleasantly surprised how many fans I bump in to ,share your view.

the tragedy is,the poor signings have managed to continue, since he left.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I despised him when he walked out, especially for the timing of it, but in retrospect, if he's stayed. I think the only difference is that he'd have been the manager when we started finishing lower to midtable, he'd have probably been sacked for underperforming, and we'd be in pretty much the same position. He knew the money wasn't going to be there, and our current position is the inevitable outcome of that happening, I don't blame him one bit for not wanting to be a part of it.

He could have done better with the money he spent, of course, but even if we'd finished in the top 4 once or twice under him, I don't think we'd be in a much better state today, we were never going to keep Man United/Arsenal/Chelsea out of the top 4 regularly, or prevent Man City breaking in to it with their billions.

I didn't despise him for walking out.....he had no choice.He had effectively been rumbled.He wanted more money to negate the mistakes he made and was denied, due to the magnitude of those mistakes, he was basically told trade out of them....presumably thought he couldn't so walked......and left us with years of mess.

he wanted more money, but left a trail of duff players that he had stuffed the club with high wages and inflated transfer fee's......and he wanted more.

the other problem was the owner should have spotted what was going on much sooner.

That was the start

 

the subsequent years has just got worse and others are at fault for that.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2015 by TRO

[Blasterpocket68]

TRO     No. The buck stops at the top. The YANK is totally responsible !!!!!!!!

 

[MrDuck]

7 hours ago, DCJonah said:

How did he get it very wrong? He finished 6th with the 6th largest wage bill. 

If that's getting it very wrong then whats followed has been catastrophic from every other manager. 

I think some people convince themselves that somehow MON bankrupted us. We were in a situation that needed addressing but wasn't something that should have caused us to be relegated 6 years later. 

Absolutely. MON did a good job - not a great one, not a bad one. Had us punching our weight, made some bad decisions but also gave us some thrilling moments. The only thing I hold against him was buying Heskey instead of a goalscorer!

Buck stops with the man at the top.

[New_Jersey_Villa]

4 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

I've always thought that historically Spurs, Everton and Villa are all similar size clubs in terms of ambition, structure, development etc. They were always the clubs who may win something occasionally, but normally compete just outside of the top spots. The way this club has been run the last few years, I'd say we are now 10 yrs behind the likes of those clubs and are more comparable to Coventry/Wigan when they were in the prem, we are now talked about as the team that must go down eventually.

 

I see a piss poor squad that has very few alternative styles of play, and a definite lack of quality.

Only one man can be culpable and that's the clown at the top. Thanks a lot Randy for destroying the club I love.

I couldn't agree more with 2/3s of your post. Your first paragraph is spot on.

As far as your point on our squad goes, I'd agree that looking at all the parts as a whole, it is pretty terrible. I do feel we have some talented individuals, but when you put what we currently have all together, it's difficult to understand what the people who brought those players were trying to achieve.

I don't think we can really blame Lerner for signing the players we have or the crazy wages that some are getting though. He's certainly culpable for hiring the people responsible for making those decisions, who in my view are more responsible for our current plight, than Lerner specifically. 

[maqroll]

2 hours ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

TRO     No. The buck stops at the top. The YANK is totally responsible !!!!!!!!

 

He is mostly responsible; if you think he is solely responsible, you haven't been paying attention. Nobody was complaining about Lerner when he gave Martin O'Neill a vault full of cash to spend. It's been a collective failure; of managers, coaches, front office staff, players, and ownership. And AS owner, Lerner must ultimately take responsibility for this disaster. But to pin it on on him completely is just not accurate.

[jackbauer24]

13 minutes ago, maqroll said:

He is mostly responsible; if you think he is solely responsible, you haven't been paying attention. Nobody was complaining about Lerner when he gave Martin O'Neill a vault full of cash to spend. It's been a collective failure; of managers, coaches, front office staff, players, and ownership. And AS owner, Lerner must ultimately take responsibility for this disaster. But to pin it on on him completely is just not accurate.

I don't think anyone is so out of their mind with rage that they can't see he's obviously not at fault for everything. Even me! In the same way you can't blame the manager when Sanchez gets caught on the ball by being useless for example...

But it's Lerner's fault we have bad players, it's Lerner who's restricted the transfer budget to pennies to make every signing a bigger gambke than it needs to be, it's Lerner who has restricted the wages to peanuts so we attract prospects from lower standard divisions, it's Lerner who has hired the wrong people in every department, it's Lerner who has responded to practically every situation in the worst possible way, it's Lerner's fault even if he's just guilty of neglect. You can't really ever pin the fault on one man when any mass corporation goes under, but Lerner is more culpable than most. This wasn't market forces, or a result of external pressures or even increased competition from other teams - this was systematic failings by Lerner at every stage of his ownership.

If a fat person has decided they've eaten too much for five years they are right to do something about it. They modify their diet, they cut out elements and cut back gradually. But what they don't do is go on a hunger strike for five years. They do that, they die. And that's what Lerner has effectively done with Villa. I have no issue with having a pauper for a Chairman and spending within boundaries is fine but that leaves only two outcomes; either he's a useless business man who has crippled this club after going on a five year spending splurge that was stupid to begin with and unsustainable OR he's a useless businessman who doesn't know how to modify a business and has neglected us to such a degree that we are where we are.

Is he 100% responsible? No. No one ever is. 99% seems fair though. It's a limited chain of command, in an organisation he should have complete control over (no franchises, not 1000s of employees stretched across the globe). He needs to get a decent CEO, a decent Manager and a decent team. 20 people in simplistic terms. All very manageable to any Chairman who's in charge of a club the size of Villa (the biggest, most successful team in the midlands, the fifth most successful team in England and Prem Leage ever presents) with the riches this league brings. If he's got the wrong people in charge every time for the last ten years, that's all on him, he's had 3 or 4 CEOs and 6 or 7 managers, how any times do you need to get it wrong.

And I've said it before; it boils down to one fact. He bought Aston Villa for a very cheap amount, debt free. He's now about to see us relegated with the worst squad most of us have ever seen and millions of pounds in debt. That's ALL Lerner.

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

As much as I resent MON for the part he played in blowing all that money, it happened so long ago it's no longer an excuse. Lerner has **** the club up and he is going to take one hell of a hit on his investment. I expect new owners next season picking the club up for peanuts.

same for me I despise MON but it was 6 years now

[jasoncb]

Pretty much agree, seems a very naive businessman and knows nothing about football or the players. He put blind trust into MON and backs him with millions then MON proceeds to put players like Harewood on his list of transfer targets.

If the vision was a top 4 place, then why would you want MON. He never was a top premier league manager and didn't have the contacts or knowledge to sign top foreign talents. Could you imagine Man City starting their spending sprees with a manager like MON in charge and sticking with him for years. No it was never viable and yes I understand it was an Ellis appointment but Lerner must of agreed to it prior to the sale.

 

Edited December 14, 2015 by jasoncb

[blandy]

12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I agree - with caveats - with the rest of this post, but not the bolded part. Bournemouth prove that it is possible to win the Championship when nobody expects you to, in a way that really isn't true in the PL. 

Bournemouth got taken over by a rich bloke and are well run. I'd strongly argue they aimed to win their league, which was my point. But in terms of how that relates to Randy Lerner, what they did was to have good judgement in appointing people. Randy's judgement has by and large been terrible.

[rodders0223]

[Neil]

So now we're all on the same page, does anyone now agree with my assertion that this guy is a parasite?  Litteraly sucked the life out of us

[TRO]

13 hours ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

TRO     No. The buck stops at the top. The YANK is totally responsible !!!!!!!!

 

I do know where you are coming from and I am not negating him from any Blame......I just happen to think one man who secured a good lump of his money, squandered it.

One was not reputed to be football man.... one is'nt. He(MON) should have known better, we ALL including RL trusted his reputation and judgment.

RL was the money man nothing more nothing less.

If you ate a crap meal....one by a chef and one by a lay man......which one would disappoint you most?

Its no good me saying(RL) I THINK he is out of his depth, because he has admitted so......as another poster aptly described his position as a "hobbyist", thus so far he has employed the wrong people by the looks of it,to date.

ps is Roman Abramovich totally responsible for Chelsea's failings?

Look, I could spend lines on here of the owners demise and why he has no good for us........ but in fairness they ( Football owners/chairman) all appoint football people to do the football job.

We as fans would have to know ALL the ins and outs of the whole thing to draw up an accurate analysis and we don't know, me included.

I am just saying it is a collection of crap that has led us here but MON did have the lions share of money and 4 years at it.I am being told on here by many posters its all about money, well he had more than any manager in the history of the club.( I don't believe its all about money by the way)

I am just asking for a balanced view.

When we won the League and Euro Cup.....Did Ron Bendall( Chairman) get the lions share of the Glory.....NO......the football people did and rightly so.

just saying you can't have it both ways.

This post is not to be confused with me saying RL is blameless. I would like to see him gone.

but remember .......on the upside,he is personally capable of funding the club, any new owners might not be, that could be a worry.

on the down side he seems incapable of making an appointment that in turn has a positive effect on the playing side of the club....to date.

Its not that easy to say certain people are s**t in a kinda sweeping statement....Without examining the full implication of the contributing people.

PS However, I do accept the man/woman at the top is responsible ultimately.....That is the culture we all work to.