Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 30, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Woodytom said: Il give you an example. The culture when I joined my job was and still is quite a lazy culture. I choose not to be like that and work my absolute bollocks off. That can be frustrating - many may say 'why should I'? But it's my choice. The culture at villa may be a reason. It's certainly no excuse. You're one particular individual with your own particular motivations and skill set. It's a failure of yours, however, to believe that everybody should or even can think and act according to your personal ideals. When I was Jacks age I was lazy and ignorant and without the drive or the innate desire to drag myself out of the cycle of disappointment. I got mixed up with the wrong crowd, drank a lot, had a 'good time' and allowed myself to be easily influenced. It wasn't that I was lacking in intelligence or ability, I was lacking strong leadership. Eventually I found that leadership. A series of individuals assisted me to assist myself, helped me to unlock my own potential and I became a man, eventually. Not a great man, but I'm pretty solid. I'm a leader myself, or at least I'm comfortable fulfilling the role of one. See, not everyone can be like you Tom. Contrary to popular belief we're not all born equal. Regardless of his material gains, Jack is a human being too. With his own set of skills and his own inadequacies and you shouldn't write him off based upon your own experiences, or indeed your own perception of his. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Indeed. That's Gareth Barry, with his league titles and 53 England caps who we would all have back now at age 35. To write Grealish off at this stage based on his personality would be foolish. Yes but that was my point, Barry at that age learnt from it and became a model professional. Whereas Lee Hendrie with his 0 league titles, 10 minute England cup and out of premier league by 29 didn't. It's all up to Jack really which way he wants to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Which is why I hope and I think this U21 experience this summer will be great for him, there's a good player in there somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 6 hours ago, VillaChris said: Under Lerner yes. I just can't see how it's going to be a fire sale under Dr Tony. Yes it's inevitable we'll lose a couple like Ayew and Gana most likely and hopefully the wasters but we need to keep likes of Adama, Grealish and Amavi as players to build a new team around. A new owner doesn't mean that players suddenly have no power. We don't get promoted he'll go and if the right offer comes in this summer he's gone, it's dependant of him playing of course as that's what he needs. Us getting brought hasn't changed the fact we're on our knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: Yes but that was my point, Barry at that age learnt from it and became a model professional. Whereas Lee Hendrie with his 0 league titles, 10 minute England cup and out of premier league by 29 didn't. It's all up to Jack really which way he wants to go. I know. I wasn't really arguing with you, just adding to the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 6 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: You're one particular individual with your own particular motivations and skill set. It's a failure of yours, however, to believe that everybody should or even can think and act according to your personal ideals. When I was Jacks age I was lazy and ignorant and without the drive or the innate desire to drag myself out of the cycle of disappointment. I got mixed up with the wrong crowd, drank a lot, had a 'good time' and allowed myself to be easily influenced. It wasn't that I was lacking in intelligence or ability, I was lacking strong leadership. Eventually I found that leadership. A series of individuals assisted me to assist myself, helped me to unlock my own potential and I became a man, eventually. Not a great man, but I'm pretty solid. I'm a leader myself, or at least I'm comfortable fulfilling the role of one. See, not everyone can be like you Tom. Contrary to popular belief we're not all born equal. Regardless of his material gains, Jack is a human being too. With his own set of skills and his own inadequacies and you shouldn't write him off based upon your own experiences, or indeed your own perception of his. Good post. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Agreed 100%. This is why culture is really important. It's no surprise that Barry really improved when Hendrie was shipped out. Hendrie was a terrible influence on Barry, utterly corrosive.They used to routinely go to one of the golf club's (either Lickey Hills or Kings North - I forget which now) and getting absolutely smashed, in fact one time they crashed a **** golf cart driving it around pissed. Barry improved significantly once the toxic influence was removed and more dedicated professionals were signed. I believe Grealish could similarly benefit from having much better influences around him. Of course he needs to make better personal decision - have more low key holidays in pre-season, ditch his moronic set of mates etc but don't underestimate the effect of working with dedicated people who want to succeed. I doubt it was at the Lickey Hills because there were not a lot of golf buggies on Municipal golf courses back then as far as I recall. Edited May 30, 2016 by John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) Quote Jack Grealish is back on the radar of Premier League clubs after impressing at the Toulon Tournament, with Aston Villa facing a battle to keep him after relegation to the Championship. Grealish has been identified as a potential summer target by Stoke City, while Tottenham Hotspur and Everton are also monitoring the attacking midfielder. After finally making his England debut for the under-21s in France this month, Grealish caught the eye of Premier League scouts to finish a miserable season on a high. The 20-year-old was unable to make an impact this season for Villa and became the subject of an unwanted statistic after losing all the 16 league games he appeared in. But Grealish’s reputation still remains high at top-flight level and he impressed on England duty for Gareth Southgate, scoring twice in the 7-1 rout of Guinea. Stoke have already registered an interest, with Mark Hughes keen to add more creativity to his squad. Hughes expects to be without Ibrahim Afellay for the rest of the year after the Dutchman suffered a knee ligament injury and Grealish would appeal as Stoke attempt to bring in more British players ahead of next season. Spurs and Everton will also consider moves for Grealish, a Villa supporter as a boy, and attempt to capitalise from the club’s drop into the second tier. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/30/aston-villa-face-battle-to-keep-jack-grealish-as-stoke-city-lead/ Edited May 30, 2016 by Farlz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I guess one of Stoke, Spurs or Everton may try to tempt us with say a cheeky £5m or lower bid to take him off our hands. If so we should give them the appropriate response that would not require all of the fingers of a hand to be deployed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 thats a typical transfer window bit of bullshit journalism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Hope I'm wrong but he may come back thinking he's an ever greater Bertie Big B*ll*cks than before...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanO Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I have no doubt that Jack has talent as we've all occasionally seen it however if he wants to to go then I wouldn't waste any time trying to keep him. I'd prefer him to stay but his application has to improve massively otherwise he's only going to be a bit part player. If the new manager wants him to leave I'd be okay with that. He occasionally good but all to often he's just meh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 21 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: 'Drive and professionalism' very, very obviously comes both from the individual him/herself AND the culture in which they work. No, they don't - in particular 'drive' which is an entirely individualistic trait. I think you're confusing these with leadership qualities which, of course, can help steer someone down the right path. However, if they don't want to follow that path then they won't. To blame Grealish's assumed poor attitude on Lescott, Richards and Agbonlahor is bizarre (not you, OP). He might be lacking guidance, but he should have the drive to want to achieve things. If not, he'll just be another <insert failed young footballer name here>. That won't be Lescott's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralJazzman Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 18 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: You're one particular individual with your own particular motivations and skill set. It's a failure of yours, however, to believe that everybody should or even can think and act according to your personal ideals. When I was Jacks age I was lazy and ignorant and without the drive or the innate desire to drag myself out of the cycle of disappointment. I got mixed up with the wrong crowd, drank a lot, had a 'good time' and allowed myself to be easily influenced. It wasn't that I was lacking in intelligence or ability, I was lacking strong leadership. Eventually I found that leadership. A series of individuals assisted me to assist myself, helped me to unlock my own potential and I became a man, eventually. Not a great man, but I'm pretty solid. I'm a leader myself, or at least I'm comfortable fulfilling the role of one. See, not everyone can be like you Tom. Contrary to popular belief we're not all born equal. Regardless of his material gains, Jack is a human being too. With his own set of skills and his own inadequacies and you shouldn't write him off based upon your own experiences, or indeed your own perception of his. It shows how weak our structure is to not identify areas of potential trouble, the summer antics was a clear indicator, and assign them a mentor to help Jack focus and learn those behaviour sets to develop as a professional. It may sound odd but I think our staff focussed on trying to halt a slide with tactics / fitness and completely forgot about the morale / human side. The results were the side effect of a disenfranchised group of players, lacking a positive togetherness who were willing to fight tooth and nail for each other, let alone the club. It's one cog in the machine that I feel didn't get due care or attention. Tim - stick it in the onion bag - Sherwood was a motivator but not a tactician. Remi - the professor mkII - Garde was a good tactician but may not be a natural motivator. We need a more experienced coach who can do both now, this would help Grealish et al. develop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 As part of the Championship squad rebuild, I'd have half an eye on bringing in a player who, not only fits the criteria of what we want, but also someone who Jack could see as a bit of an inspiration to work hard and get out of the bad habits he looked to have started to pick up. I don't really have any players in mind, but after watching the England U21 clips, I wouldn't mind seeing Redmond here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 24 minutes ago, bobzy said: No, they don't - in particular 'drive' which is an entirely individualistic trait. I think you're confusing these with leadership qualities which, of course, can help steer someone down the right path. However, if they don't want to follow that path then they won't. To blame Grealish's assumed poor attitude on Lescott, Richards and Agbonlahor is bizarre (not you, OP). He might be lacking guidance, but he should have the drive to want to achieve things. If not, he'll just be another <insert failed young footballer name here>. That won't be Lescott's fault. Few are simply blaming the culture, rather it's the combination of culture and the individual to blame. It's fair to say that Grealish has made poor decisions and seems to enjoy the 'lifestyle' too much, he's directly responsible for that. But it's also clear that as a young player he lacks leaders and role models around him to help impart a sense of genuine professionalism and hard work on the training pitch. Young players can be impressionable and a lack of structure and role models to follow can lead them down the wrong path. When United had all those young players come through the academy in the 90s they had strong role models to follow - Schemeichel, Dennis Irwin, Roy Keane, Gary Pallister etc. And SAF was quick to dispatch of the trouble makers (e.g. Lee Sharpe). I believe that without strong influences at both the manager and colleague level these players wouldn't have become as good as they did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted May 31, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31, 2016 If he wants out he can **** off as far as I'm concerned. No-one is bigger than the club and to think you are when you've only shown the promise of being a very talented player whilst never having produced for 90 minutes a few weeks in a row is complete madness. I'm not saying he does want out, but al of a sudden there's a few rumours of impressing scouts and Stoke wanting him and all sorts. Could be his agent stoking the fire for a move and his agent at the end of the day works for him so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 2 hours ago, bobzy said: No, they don't - in particular 'drive' which is an entirely individualistic trait. I think you're confusing these with leadership qualities which, of course, can help steer someone down the right path. However, if they don't want to follow that path then they won't. To blame Grealish's assumed poor attitude on Lescott, Richards and Agbonlahor is bizarre (not you, OP). He might be lacking guidance, but he should have the drive to want to achieve things. If not, he'll just be another <insert failed young footballer name here>. That won't be Lescott's fault. No, I don't agree. 'Drive' is just another way of saying 'motivation', and it's obviously affected by both internal and external factors. Whoever said it was 'Lescott's fault' is obviously over-simplifying. They're both employees, therefore they both create the culture and are affected by it. Lescott's (presumed) bad attitude will affect those around him. I have literally no idea why this is controversial. I don't understand why you think I'm talking 'leadership qualities', I'm talking about organisational culture. It's been a field of academic study for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 This is why we desperately need a manager in place asap. If Jack is to figure in his (RDM's?) plans, Jack needs to know it and stop the vultures circling. Same for the other half dozen or so worth keeping. They need to be told the squad will be built around them, assured of more quality coming in and get bought in to the vision for hte next couple of seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 On 05/07/2010 at 23:20, sir_gary_cahill said: I'd say Adam Johnson is a good comparison but Grealish has far more technical ability Fancy comparing our Jack to this... has been. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts