JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: I thought it was hilarious Kiwis, Aussies, Yaardies etc guess we have a more crass sense of humour which can sometimes be misconstrued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 He’s reminded me a bit of Gabby in the last few games, only not as quick. That’s not a compliment. Him and Ings really aren’t having great seasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) I think he is a good PL striker, and he is proven for us. This year we just haven’t played all that well, Watkins suffered an injury early in the season, we had an unsettled midfield/forward line up which affects patterns of supply. He is now playing in a slightly new system, alongside Ings, which hasn’t worked - they both occupy the same space and and are perhaps not as generous to each other as they could be. All adds up to a difficult season so far, so maybe not to be expected and not all his fault. The Everton game was ugly so difficult to be too critical. I do note he doesn’t look to be playing with a smile on his face as much? I also think the lone focal striker carries a huge burden, even more as we continue to spend. I expect him to improve as we do as a team and he becomes more familiar with how we now play. Modern forwards are not all about just goals and he has a good work ethic and pressures are part of his game. Like everyone else in the side though, this management/ownership won’t wait if something isn’t working. Edited January 23, 2022 by thunderball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, thunderball said: I think he is a good PL striker, and he is proven for us. This year we just haven’t played all that well, Watkins suffered an injury early in the season, we had an unsettled midfield/forward line up which affects patterns of supply. He is now playing in a slightly new system, alongside Ings, which hasn’t worked - they both occupy the same space and and are perhaps not as generous to each other as they could be. All adds up to a difficult season so far, so maybe not to be expected and not all his fault. The Everton game was ugly so difficult to be too critical. I do note he doesn’t look to be playing with a smile on his face as much? I also think the lone focal striker carries a huge burden, even more as we continue to spend. I expect him to improve as we do as a team and he becomes more familiar with how we now play. Modern forwards are not all about just goals and he has a good work ethic and pressures are part of his game. Like everyone else in the side though, this management/ownership won’t wait if something isn’t working. Sorry I do not agree with this, your being much to lenient. Being that far offside as he was in the last game, speaks volumes for me, I wouldn't expect that from a premier league player and you rarely seen it from other strikers. He is just not at his game, Gerrard has continued to play him to see if he can regain his form, but it's just not happening. Anyone can miss a goal, but his positioning has been so poor, we pass it around Man city esk, pass it to Watkins for him to lose it to a opposing player and he never chases for it back. There was a time I would never consider selling him, but I think if we did now, he wouldn't be missed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Sorry I do not agree with this, your being much to lenient. Being that far offside as he was in the last game, speaks volumes for me, I wouldn't expect that from a premier league player and you rarely seen it from other strikers. He is just not at his game, Gerrard has continued to play him to see if he can regain his form, but it's just not happening. Anyone can miss a goal, but his positioning has been so poor, we pass it around Man city esk, pass it to Watkins for him to lose it to a opposing player and he never chases for it back. There was a time I would never consider selling him, but I think if we did now, he wouldn't be missed. Not the same player as last season, I said that. If Arsenal offered £50m I’d bite their hand off, and know we could do better, but we know there is a decent player in there and a striker with more to his game than just goals. Ings has one of the best records in the league and has scored hatfuls everywhere he’s been but he’s not playing well either. Edited January 23, 2022 by thunderball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: It was a light-hearted joke about him possibly, not getting any sex from the spouse since having a new baby .( It happens ) Hence the frustration? ( I'm pretty sure he's getting it, if that makes it a little better? ) Never realised it was that offensive and apologise if it was seen as such! It was not meant to be in the slightest. Not offensive in the slightest. Odd that some are rattled by it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, thunderball said: I think he is a good PL striker, and he is proven for us. I don't think he is proven yet. Through the years there have been plenty of players who look like they will be great for one or two seasons but have then faded away. I think he HAS proven to be a good buy for us (definitely added a new dimension to our play last season) but a good PL striker? I think a player needs at least 2 good seasons to prove that. So far Ollie has arguably had one good season (40 matches - 16 goals and 5 assists) and then a half season where he has been largely disappointing (19 matches - 5 goals and 1 assist). Having looked for the stats I was surprised that he's been less patchy than I thought this season i.e. his worst run is 4 games without scoring (whereas last season he had runs of 7 and 9 matches without scoring - although I do remember that he had a couple of VERY dodgy VAR decisions go against him during those runs and hit the woodwork a few times as well) which isn't really that bad. But I was also very surprised to see that he has only scored more than once in a match for us twice (THAT Liverpool match and then Arsenal a couple of weeks later). He has also only scored in back to back league matches for us 4 times and has never scored in 3 consecutive league matches. Admittedly we've probably struggled to play 3 good matches back to back for a large part of his time here and so that isn't necessarily a reflection on him!!!! Anyway, I'm really not trying to use those stats to make any kind of statement other than that I found it surprising - in my mind Ollie was more of a confidence player who if he scored one would go on a scoring run. I appreciate that many people will say that his value to the team is more than just the goals he scores and / or that we haven't played to his strengths this season (in the same way that I think Luiz is under-rated because he has been playing in a role that doesn't entirely suit him) and I'm not disputing that here. I was just surprised and thought that it was interesting and so worth sharing. Edited January 23, 2022 by allani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Him and Danny need to work on their working relationship, and do this. One of my favourite villa goals when I was very excited about this pairing! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only2McInallys Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, MaVilla said: in the last game, he was literally given a golden chance on a platter, but he decided to be 3 yards offside and head it at the keeper, when a blind & legless person would have been expected to put it away. I understand we can be a little overly harsh on players, as well as overly praising of players, but honestly, if you are defending Watkins' recent performances, im not sure what poor play looks like 2 u, he's been really bad overall for quite a few games, and its not just finishing, control, ball retention, vision, passing to other players rather than being selfish....the list goes on. watkins had a fairly good first season with us last season, but this season hasnt been good for him at all. I can understand people questioning his form this season but “Watkins had a fairly good first season” I find difficult to agree with. I thought he was one of our best players last year and probably the best striker we have had since Benteke Regarding his headed chance,in the 1970 World Cup when Banks saves Peles header was that a bad miss on Peles part? Edited January 23, 2022 by Only2McInallys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, Only2McInallys said: I can understand people questioning his form this season but “Watkins had a fairly good first season” I find difficult to agree with. I thought he was one of our best players last year and probably the best striker we have had since Carew. Regarding his headed chance,in the 1970 World Cup when Banks saves Peles header was that a bad miss on Peles part? Benteke? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Him and Danny need to work on their working relationship, and do this. One of my favourite villa goals when I was very excited about this pairing! To be fair with the way Gerrard seems to want to play - him and Danny aren't going to be on the pitch together very often. They both need to build a working relationship with Emi/Coutinho/Bailey far more than with each other. I'm not particularly interested with them proving that they can play together - I want to see them proving to SG that they can get on the end of moves created from our attacking midfielders and / or set up chances for them. I thought / hoped that the Ings/Watkins partnership could work and that it was worth trying. But we tried, it didn't work and now it is time to try Emi / Coutinho behind a single striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, allani said: I don't think he is proven yet. Through the years there have been plenty of players who look like they will be great for one or two seasons but have then faded away. I think he HAS proven to be a good buy for us (definitely added a new dimension to our play last season) but a good PL striker? I think a player needs at least 2 good seasons to prove that. So far Ollie has arguably had one good season (40 matches - 16 goals and 5 assists) and then a half season where he has been largely disappointing (19 matches - 5 goals and 1 assist). Having looked for the stats I was surprised that he's been less patchy than I thought this season (i.e. his worst run is 4 games without scoring whereas last season he had runs of 7 and 9 matches without scoring - although I do remember that he had a couple of VERY dodgy VAR decisions go against him during those runs and hit the woodwork a few times as well. But I was also very surprised to see that he has only scored more than once in a match for us twice (THAT Liverpool match and then Arsenal a couple of weeks later). He has also only scored in back to back league matches for us 4 times and has never scored in 3 consecutive league matches. Admittedly we've probably struggled to play 3 good matches back to back for a large part of his time here and so that isn't necessarily a reflection on him!!!! Anyway, I'm really not trying to use those stats to make any kind of statement other than that I found it surprising - in my mind Ollie was more of a confidence player who if he scored one would go on a scoring run. I appreciate that many people will say that his value to the team is more than just the goals he scores and / or that we haven't played to his strengths this season (in the same way that I think Luiz is under-rated because he has been playing in a role that doesn't entirely suit him) and I'm not disputing that here. I was just surprised and thought that it was interesting and so worth sharing. Well 1 good season in 1.5 seasons isnt bad so far? I would say 16 goals in his maiden Premier League season as decent? The only centre forwards scoring more than him were: Kane, Bamford, Calvert Lewin and Vardy. With more luck (woodwork and VAR) and as the designated penalty taker he could have made 20 goals. I can give you a very long list of forwards who scored less, in some cases an awful lot less, and don’t have the other aspects of game that he has either. Honestly, he’s a decent forward, we could do much worse, but yes, could do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Only2McInallys said: I can understand people questioning his form this season but “Watkins had a fairly good first season” I find difficult to agree with. I thought he was one of our best players last year and probably the best striker we have had since Benteke Regarding his headed chance,in the 1970 World Cup when Banks saves Peles header was that a bad miss on Peles part? are you really comparing Watkins' miss to the Pele/Banks situation? You expect a good striker to score that chance 99/100 (vs Everton), yes a keeper can pull off an amazing save, but if they do, its because the striker hasnt placed the shot properly. Anyone can miss from time to time, but Watkins to me, has really poor finishing instincts.....tbh i wont say poor, just bang average and it wont be good enough if we want to be climbing the table, we need clinical and composed finishers. tbh, its also not just Watkins, as a team we arent as clinical as we should be (generally speaking), we have trouble killing games off, due to our poor finishing (i dont mean always, i just mean its a noticeable thing). Edited January 23, 2022 by MaVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, thunderball said: Well 1 good season in 1.5 seasons isnt bad so far? I would say 16 goals in his maiden Premier League season as decent? The only centre forwards scoring more than him were: Kane, Bamford, Calvert Lewin and Vardy. With more luck (woodwork and VAR) and as the designated penalty taker he could have made 20 goals. I can give you a very long list of forwards who scored less, in some cases an awful lot less, and don’t have the other aspects of game that he has either. Honestly, he’s a decent forward, we could do much worse, but yes, could do better. i think that is quite a fair and balanced comment. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, thunderball said: Well 1 good season in 1.5 seasons isnt bad so far? I would say 16 goals in his maiden Premier League season as decent? The only centre forwards scoring more than him were: Kane, Bamford, Calvert Lewin and Vardy. With more luck (woodwork and VAR) and as the designated penalty taker he could have made 20 goals. I can give you a very long list of forwards who scored less, in some cases an awful lot less, and don’t have the other aspects of game that he has either. Honestly, he’s a decent forward, we could do much worse, but yes, could do better. I'm really not trying to dismiss him at all. Compared to say DCL - who is probably the other young English CF coming through - I would take Watkins ANY day of the week and twice on Saturday (from a footballing perspective obviously!!). However, he has only had one good season. There are plenty of players / teams who managed one good season. They always say that the hardest novel to write is the second bestseller / the hardest single is the one after your debut goes to Number 1. I really do hope that Ollie turns things around and claims the position for his own, banging in goals / churning out performances for seasons to come. The only point that I was trying to make is that he isn't a proven PL striker yet. The rest of the post was just stuff that I found whilst checking his stats that surprised me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 DCL is/was a very average striker. He improved a lot under ancelotti, who basically told him to take shots earlier, but to be honest, at 20 something, I'm amazed a coach hadn't already told him to shoot as soon as he could.. that seems a pretty basic thing to me Ollie is a good striker when we don't have the ball (closing down, tireless work rate) or if we're countering/pumping the ball into corners to alleviate pressure, because of his speed and running (he's a strong runner too). He's not going to be so good if we're trying to dominate games because he somewhat lacks technique, fast footwork and trickery to properly "beat a player". His movement could be better as well to be honest. But, he's young, he can learn and he works hard, so there's hope (although I doubt he'll ever be explosive/tricky enough to be a huge threat over his career, regularly scoring 15+ a season). At the moment though, he's definitely good enough for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Our one was 10x more a pen than that Liverpool one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Our one was 10x more a pen than that Liverpool one Was it really? Jota bought that a bit, but there's full contact. As I remember it Pickford minorly tapped Watkin's boot. I might be misremembering though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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