StefanAVFC Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, PaulC said: All parties lie And the relevancy is? We're not talking about 'all parties' It's shallow whataboutism at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 59 minutes ago, Awol said: I’m not criticising government for failing to deliver tests that haven’t been invented yet (ones that work), or other things that aren’t currently within their gift. The mistakes we are living with now Something that is within their gift though is not suggesting that such a thing was just around the corner when it wasn't. It's something that this collective have been doing for years - prioritise tomorrow's headline over next week's reality. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 You really do have to question how and why it can take us so long to get the essential kit and equipment in place. The long and short answer is capitalism in my opinion, that everything has to have a £/$ sign attached to it is the issue. Whoever holds the design patents for the various items required should be sharing them with every manufacturer capable of replicating them with government assurances on funding the costs, at a set agreed rate across the board. I guess there’s a challenge then in having that workforce up and running but at that/this point, surely they’d have to be seen as essential workers. I know I tend to look at things too simplistically at times but if we were a joined up society this is what would happen surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 We are at pretty much 1k deaths a day and assume these are from people who got this around 3 weeks ago so before we were on complete lock down but at a time when it was hardly rife in the community. Therefore how many deaths a day would we expect if this was going through the community like wild fire? 2k a day, 5k a day, 10k a day? The 1k a day who are dying now aren't dying because they can't get care they are dying because the best hospital care we have can't save them. I just can't see a way out of this without tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths in UK other than staying on a lock down like we are under until a vaccine is found. Even if you relax the measures a little you would quickly end up in the situation we where a few weeks ago, where the virus was hardly rife in the community, but which has now resulted in us seeing 1k deaths a day. Am I missing something here or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Awol said: No quick deliveries of COVID-19 ventilators, EU says So the ‘value add’ was reducing competition between EU states, including the UK would remove is from the market as a competitor for the same finite resource. The bonus was slowing down the entire acquisition process during an emergency.. That’s two potential reasons for the UK to decline. Sorry, but no, not for me, not at all. We've subsequently said we will join the scheme. They were offered, Hancock wanted to join and Gove and others said "no, we're an independent Brexited nation we can manage just fine". But they can't. It's true that just about every nation is desperate for ventilators - we appealed to NATO and got 60 off Germany yesterday. But the thing is, purchasing power counts. An order for 27 nations with the associated clout and finance attached will trump one for a single UK. Further, while it's true that there is a limit on capacity abroad, whatever efforts the EU process will bring would have been on top of home produced ventilators. I know there are various Co.s - Dyson, and some consortia (one includes my Co.) doing what they can to home produce various items. It's an "as well as" not "instead of" and it's been counter-productive to say the least. Whoppers with Brexit in their brains, where marbles should be. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 31 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Something that is within their gift though is not suggesting that such a thing was just around the corner when it wasn't. It's something that this collective have been doing for years - prioritise tomorrow's headline over next week's reality. Genuinely think they got caught out by the Chinese test scam (like many other countries), but the desperation to say something positive made them reckless. As someone else said, it’s always over-promise and under-deliver. Not a good combo. The strategic communication has been dogs**t from day one and that’s entirely on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 56 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Maybe talking is the wrong word, but they've said he's making the decisions which suggest lucidity. You don't make decisions on the country, from the ICU. Remember, they hid the severity of it from us when he was taken to hospital. I would understand it in normal circumstances, but I'm programmed (and from prior experiences) that if a Tory says it, they're lying. There is no way in the world in which he should be taking decisions about the country from the ICU, presumably with the symptoms of pneumonia. Frankly, I hope they're lying about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Wainy316 said: No they don't from what I've seen. They aren't reading or attributing this kind of stuff to the right place. They're being painted as heroes in some quarters and I've seen a few posts on FB saying Johnson is the best PM since Churchill Unbelievably frustrating. Disgusting really. While I hope the PM gets over this the fact people were on the street clapping him while some nurses are being asked to hold their breath and others are wearing bin bags is **** sickening. No surprise that the few videos I saw on social media were middle aged white people outside their massive homes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 9, 2020 There’s no way they’re telling the truth about Johnson. You don’t spend days in an ICU as a precaution whether you’re the prime minister or not. His condition may be improving, but there’s no way he’s been as healthy as they claim he has these past few days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2020 7 hours ago, lapal_fan said: it's quite shocking at how many "hero companies" are now coming to the fore, giving free shit to people who work on the front lines (not that those people don't deserve it!), but yet, if it wasn't for this pandemic, would happily take their cash and let people who are incredibly worse off, go without. The governments around the world are promising unprecedented amounts of money into paying people who can't work a wage which is above the average income, yet when the pandemic is over, that'll be gone, but the suffering will remain in it's wake. It's like, when we need it, there's a never ending money tree that gets switched off whenever convenient. Back to the big "hero companies", are they so different from the governments in WW2, harvesting the brightest and best scientists in the world to develop the next big weapon (or hope) in the fight against the virus? Can you imagine where we'd potentially be if we pooled our wealth into science, R&D, education, rather than putting emphasis on how many camera's are on your iphone 47? I think there's an element of that, but I also think you've got it a bit wrong, to my way of thinking anyway. The business I work for is now making PPE for nurses and docs, is building a massive temporary morgue, is working to make ventilators and so on. We're an aircraft manufacturer (normally). Governments (normally) want aircraft. Now they want other things, and so we're turning our facilities and etc. over to doing that. Pandemics aren't "normal". People rallying round to donate to the NHS, or businesses doing it, or footballers, or tax exiles wanting handouts - these are reflections of 3 things, really - people's generosity, people's ingenuity and people's greed and selfishness at times of abnormal need. It's not "hero companies" that are otherwise grabbing entities. It's more human than that. It's just "normally I make and sell kids toys or aircraft or shoes or beer or whatever, and now, I can help by making face masks, or sanitiser, so I will. Companies also want bright people to work for them, if they're manufacturers or engineering or high-tech. Less so if they're after Amazon warehouse slaves. It's not wrong, though you're right about the way some workers are treated. Inventing mobile phones or whatever is "good". Half the nation is able to work from home and help fight this spreading virus because of mobile devices. Technology and invention and ingenuity, however funded or owned is a benefit. Though in the UK we seem not to think so. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Another day, another example of power-hungry plod making up his own law. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-police-chief-issues-lockdown-21838760 Quote A police chief has said the three week 'grace period' of lockdown is now over and social distancing enforcement will be 'ramped up'. Northamptonshire Police Chief Constable Nick Adderley has said the force will now strengthen the enforcement of coronavirus regulations. He said people in the county could now face fines or a criminal record. According to the police chief, a small number of people had been flouting the regulations - with some officers being "baited" by members of the public. He said the force may have to resort to more extreme measures such as road blocks and searching shopping trolleys should people continue to break the rules. I'd love to know what they're intending to do when they've looked through people's trolleys. Perhaps the government could issue a list of approved items we're allowed to buy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: There’s no way they’re telling the truth about Johnson. You don’t spend days in an ICU as a precaution whether you’re the prime minister or not. His condition may be improving, but there’s no way he’s been as healthy as they claim he has these past few days. They seriously need to step him down now - he cannot be PM for some time, he'll need proper rest after this. Not sure what the Tory party rules are but gotta put someone up to lead things from the front at least for a month or two, the country is rudderless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Another day, another example of power-hungry plod making up his own law. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-police-chief-issues-lockdown-21838760 I'd love to know what they're intending to do when they've looked through people's trolleys. Perhaps the government could issue a list of approved items we're allowed to buy. In case anyne would like to hear the power-mad dipshit say this in his own words, here he is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 BJ out of intensive care now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rodders said: BJ out of intensive care now. It's a miracle! I say we sack off Jesus at Easter and tell the story of Boris' resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I don’t understand this issue of buying non essential items from the shop. Why don’t they tell the shops to take them off the shelves, or close the isles of we’re not allowed to buy them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Easter miracle, bed blocking bastard Johnson is alive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: It's a miracle! I say we sack off Jesus at Easter and tell the story of Boris' resurrection. Must have been the claps. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: Easter miracle, bed blocking bastard Johnson is alive. Probably thought it’s cost enough bloody money I’m having a go in one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Genie said: I don’t understand this issue of buying non essential items from the shop. Why don’t they tell the shops to take them off the shelves, or close the isles of we’re not allowed to buy them. Only shops that sell food, drink, DIY maintenance stuff and other things deemed essential are allowed to open. IF you go for some food, and see, I dunno, a pot plant, or some scissors, or some flowers or something then why prevent the shop selling that to you - why deprive them the profit, why deprive a wife or husband a birthday present - in essence some jobsworth deciding "you can't sell scissors, but you can sell cutlery is too far. I get people going out solely for [flowers] should not be, and if that's your point, I agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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