Generic Virus Thread

[Mic09]

7 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

To be fair I don't there are any cities in Italy that quite compare to London or New York, which is where the biggest carnage has taken place.  I suspect that for those two cities we would need to have locked down well before it had started in other European countries to have avoided the spread. 

While a lot of people don't respect the distancing and UK has gone into lockdown late, I think we are underestimating this as an issue. UK is the most densely populated large country in Europe.

Obviously China is another example but I'm hesitant to use their data. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It won't work. The papers will be full of "Brave Boris" and anyone pulling him up on any relevance will be shot down as a traitor.

In the short term yes. What about in the future when the  government is in massive debt and if the country is an economic mess? I’d already put money on our next government being a labour one. 
 

Im also probably completing wrong. 

[sharkyvilla]

2 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

While a lot of people don't respect the distancing and UK has gone into lockdown late, I think we are underestimating this as an issue. UK is the most densely populated large country in Europe.

Obviously China is another example but I'm hesitant to use their data. 

In general I think the country has done well with the lockdown, there are inevitably people who didnt understand it or are just pig ignorant and rightly they get called out on it and we have been constantly reminded/threatened about not breaking the rules.  The problem with London is that I would suspect as early as January there would have been a shitload people with it and spreading it on the tube.  It's just the cosmopolitan nature of the city.  

[markavfc40]

21 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

To be fair I don't there are any cities in Italy that quite compare to London or New York, which is where the biggest carnage has taken place.  I suspect that for those two cities we would need to have locked down well before it had started in other European countries to have avoided the spread. 

Northern Italy went into lock down on March 8th. At that time we had 274 confirmed cases in UK so I'd imagine double digit figures in London. I believe we were still contact tracing at that time. We went into what we class as a lock down on March 23rd over two weeks after Northern Italy.

London and New York are densely populated this hasn't come as a recent surprise though has it. It was known if it got around the communities in these cities it would have a greater impact than most other cities. You'd therefore like to think we'd use being able to see what is happening in other countries to our advantage and act as early as possible. We didn't. 

[LondonLax]

6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

FFS

 

I didn’t see any live wild animals (though it’s difficult to tell). Is that much different to Smithfield or Billingsgate markets if they are only butchering meat and selling it?

[villa4europe]

7 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

I didn’t see any live wild animals (though it’s difficult to tell). Is that much different to Smithfield or Billingsgate markets if they are only butchering meat and selling it?

In terms of general hygiene? Yes, quite definitely, they're world apart

Temperatures, clothing, general environment, cleaning methods etc

You're going from a plastic mat covering a wooden table vs stainless steel

Edit - HACCP! makes a huge difference, we do it, they don't 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by villa4europe

[Vive_La_Villa]

19 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I've been called a paranoid nutter with a chip on my shoulder (not on here, mind you) for banging this drum for the last few weeks.

It was clear that any powers the police were to be given would be abused. They always are, I expected as much. What I am astonished by is just how comfortable they are, even at a senior level, literally inventing the law and their powers as they go along. It shouldn't be forgiven.

I think this country is way to soft. There is pretty much zero respect or even fear of the police. To many are just considered a joke.  As soon as a few fines started to get handed out there was an uproar! 

The town I live In is considered the worst hit area outside of London. Apparently there are people of a certain community who have zero respect for the rules and are the reason for the high numbers. A friend of mine questioned his neighbour as he was standing  on his drive with a group of friends. The response was his parents had died a few years ago so there’s nobody he has to worry about. Unfortunately this is the selfish attitude of way too many people in the country.  They aren’t going to listen to the police either.

Genuine question, are there many other countries in the world that have a police force and laws as soft as ours? 

[Seat68]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think this country is way to soft. There is pretty much zero respect or even fear of the police. To many are just considered a joke.  As soon as a few fines started to get handed out there was an uproar! 

The town I live In is considered the worst hit area outside of London. Apparently there are people of a certain community who have zero respect for the rules and are the reason for the high numbers. A friend of mine questioned his neighbour as he was standing  on his drive with a group of friends. The response was his parents had died a few years ago so there’s nobody he has to worry about. Unfortunately this is the selfish attitude of way too many people in the country.  They aren’t going to listen to the police either.

Genuine question, are there many other countries in the world that have a police force and laws as soft as ours? 

Certain community? 

 

Regardless,  you think our police and laws are the most lenient? All nations we have the most lenient?

Also what certain community? The very old, the very young? 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Seat68

[Stevo985]

19 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

In the short term yes. What about in the future when the  government is in massive debt and if the country is an economic mess? I’d already put money on our next government being a labour one. 
 

Im also probably completing wrong. 

Doubt it. They'll probably find a way to blame Corbyn for all of this.

 

In all seriousness, I do think if that study that predicted the UK would be the worst hit country in Europe ends up coming true that we may see people turning on the government. Why, when we had a head start on countries like Italy and Spain, have we ended up as the worst hit country? I don't really see any explanation other than we didn't lockdown soon enough and we were trying for this herd immunity thing, which they U-turned on when they realised we wouldn't accept hundreds of thousands of people dying.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, Seat68 said:

Certain community? 

 

Regardless,  you think our police and laws are the most lenient? All nations we have the most lenient?

Also what certain community? The very old, the very young? 

I don’t know if our police are lenient but it feels that way compared to countries I have visited. But then I suppose when that list includes countries like USA, Turkey, Egypt and India I suppose it would obviously look that way. Be interested to hear from VT’s abroad on how police or countries are handling social distancing? 

In terms of community I was referring to the Muslim or Pakistani community in particular. I didn’t want to mention it in case it sounded like I had an agenda or something but the numbers of cases and deaths in the town I live in are disproportionately high.
 

There are many reports of  gatherings still take places at peoples houses.   I do however thing this could be down to a lot of the community living in inner city areas which are very congested. Practicing social distancing must be very difficult and these areas have become hotspots.

[snowychap]

9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

There is pretty much zero ... fear of the police.

Good.

As far as respect goes, it's the whole thing about respect being earnt. Sure one may 'give' it, too - but, on that basis, it can quite easily be taken away (or lost by police overstepping the mark).

14 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Genuine question, are there many other countries in the world that have a police force and laws as soft as ours?

I think you might need to revisit the basis for your question, i.e. 'a police force and laws as soft as ours'.

Perhaps looking at the concept of policing by consent might be a good place to start.

[sne]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t know if our police are lenient but it feels that way compared to countries I have visited. But then I suppose when that list includes countries like USA, Turkey, Egypt and India I suppose it would obviously look that way. Be interested to hear from VT’s abroad on how police or countries are handling social distancing? 

In terms of community I was referring to the Muslim or Pakistani community in particular. I didn’t want to mention it in case it sounded like I had an agenda or something but the numbers of cases and deaths in the town I live in are disproportionately high.
 

There are many reports of  gatherings still take places at peoples houses.   I do however thing this could be down to a lot of the community living in inner city areas which are very congested. Practicing social distancing must be very difficult and these areas have become hotspots.

Sweden has so iffy rules that half of the people doesn't care or bother. In typical Swedish fashion we do it half arsed so to try and not offend anyone meaning everything stay open but with restrictions no one enforces.

Lots of instruction that they are sad when people don't follow but at the same time they say it's OK for lower league football to start playing competitive games in Stockholm. You know, but distancing is important...

The entitled people who are used to doing what they like are continuing to go to their beach houses or ski cabins over Easter, the terraces are full at the restaurants and at the same time they have started to deploy riot police outside some hospitals in Stockholm because they have run out of ICU beds and it might turn ugly.

 

[LondonLax]

25 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

In terms of general hygiene? Yes, quite definitely, they're world apart

Temperatures, clothing, general environment, cleaning methods etc

You're going from a plastic mat covering a wooden table vs stainless steel

Edit - HACCP! makes a huge difference, we do it, they don't 

 

That’s going to be true of most of the world though, all throughout Asia, the Middle East, Africa and South America. Western standards are going to be the minority on this planet. 

I thought the big problem with Chinese ‘wet markets’ was having wild animals living packed in close confinement, pooping and sneezing on each other?

[chrisp65]

29 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think this country is way to soft. There is pretty much zero respect or even fear of the police. To many are just considered a joke.  As soon as a few fines started to get handed out there was an uproar! 

The town I live In is considered the worst hit area outside of London. Apparently there are people of a certain community who have zero respect for the rules and are the reason for the high numbers. A friend of mine questioned his neighbour as he was standing  on his drive with a group of friends. The response was his parents had died a few years ago so there’s nobody he has to worry about. Unfortunately this is the selfish attitude of way too many people in the country.  They aren’t going to listen to the police either.

Genuine question, are there many other countries in the world that have a police force and laws as soft as ours? 

We should not fear the police.

They are there to protect us and help us.

If we fear the police, it’s all a bit self defeating isn’t it.

There needs to be mutual respect. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

We should not fear the police.

 

19 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Perhaps looking at the concept of policing by consent might be a good place to start.

In a ideal world at in ‘normal’ time’s yes.  I think if the situation doesn’t improve some more unorthodox methods should be bought in. I’d be open to it.

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

We should not fear the police.

They are there to protect us and help us.

If we fear the police, it’s all a bit self defeating isn’t it.

There needs to be mutual respect. 

There will never be mutual respect. There are way too many people out there that despise the police and always will. A lot of time for no rational reason either.

 Maybe in these cases a little fear might help. 

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

 

In a ideal world at in ‘normal’ time’s yes.  I think if the situation doesn’t improve some more unorthodox methods should be bought in. I’d be open to it.

By unorthodox, do you mean smashing the windows of paediatricians? Or slashing the tyres of nurses self isolating in caravan parks?

There is nothing about the current situation that can’t be dealt with in a perfectly orthodox way.

 

[ml1dch]

7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

... some more unorthodox methods should be bought in.

Go on...

[Davkaus]

Police in America shoot dead about 1,000 people per year. I'm pretty glad  ours look "soft" compared to that.

The duty of the police is to serve us by enforcing the laws that our government has put in place. They're not sheriffs in the wild west that get to decide what's right and wrong. It's one thing having junior officers displaying poor judgement in individual moments, not acceptable, but occasionally understandable, however I'd have chief constables who attempt to have their officers go and and beyond the powers they have enshrined in law removed from their post.

[Davkaus]

Just now, ml1dch said:

Go on...

I think he's been watching some recent videos from Hong Kong