The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[villa4europe]

23 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

I think you very well know he doesn't think this only applies at McDonalds.

The point Stefan is making is that by pushing minimum wage up so much it will make his brother closer to the poorer minimum wage workers. Although he may get a rise | would doubt it would be around the same % increase, this then pushes his economical standing down and closer to the poorest rather than the rich. When companies increase prices on products to compensate for the wage rise he will in fact be worse off.

I also don't think that Stefan agrees with his brother however he is not wrong that this is the way a lot of people think, a few of my friends earning around the same bracket are also voting Tory for the same reasons as above. I don't think they have been duped it is just the way some peoples minds work, i get the logic behind it but its not the way of progression

Thank you, explained it better than I could 

[StefanAVFC]

And how does your brother think the country has improved in the last 9 years of Tory rule? How has his life improved?

[meregreen]

Just off now to vote Labour in this election. Rather cut my wrists than vote for the Blue Meanies. I’m over 60 got a good income and own my own home. Some people would say that should make me a classic demographic  Tory. Unfortunately for the Tories I also have a social conscience and a desire to see a better, fairer and more equitable world. Boris represents everything I despise. Hope there are enough like me to kickthe duplicitous word removed out of office.

[snowychap]

16 minutes ago, rubberman said:

Yeah - I'm trying not to think about that.

He he. Sorry.

[snowychap]

18 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

If we artificially (via legislation) increase the wages of both, the prices in both places will go up to keep the profits up.

Thing is, it's not as simple as that.

 

[villa4europe]

8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

And how does your brother think the country has improved in the last 9 years of Tory rule? How has his life improved?

he wouldn't be able to measure it because he's come off a minimum wage 0 hour contract, in to social housing and had 3 kids in the last 9 years, lives a completely different life under this government 

probably the same as me, he thought blair and brown were **** idiots (for different reasons) not a clue what his brexits thoughts are

hard to tell but one of the most visible benefits in the last 9 years would be the personal allowance increase

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Thing is, it's not as simple as that.

 

Why is it not? And if it isn't, why stop at £10? Why not £15?

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Thing is, it's not as simple as that.

 

Not only is it 'not as simple as that', but we have actual evidence from introducing, and then slowly increasing, the minimum wage, that it did not have any real measurable effect on inflation at all. 

That doesn't mean it couldn't, if a minimum wage increase were large enough, but it hasn't when we've done it before. 

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

Not only is it 'not as simple as that', but we have actual evidence from introducing, and then slowly increasing, the minimum wage, that it did not have any real measurable effect on inflation at all. 

That doesn't mean it couldn't, if a minimum wage increase were large enough, but it hasn't when we've done it before. 

Has it had a real measurable effect on living standards? 

[snowychap]

10 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Why is it not?

See HV's post above, see my previous post, &c.

Prices are affected by many things not just labour costs (or increases in labour costs).

10 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

And if it isn't, why stop at £10? Why not £15?

Why not, indeed. (Obviously, over time so that it doesn't cause any unnecessary shocks and taken as part of a package of measures)

Edited December 12, 2019 by snowychap

[Wainy316]

8 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

hard to tell but one of the most visible benefits in the last 9 years would be the personal allowance increase

Well that wouldn't even be close to making up for the 2.5% VAT increase they immediately introduced.

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, meregreen said:

Unfortunately for the Tories I also have a social conscience and a desire to see a better, fairer and more equitable world

we've done this one before but  I still don't think that its a particularly valid to make these kinds of judgements based on where someone puts an X  , I'd like to see a fairer and more equitable world but , heres the things , the Tory party don't run the world , the planet is basically run by self-serving rocket polishers 

can we do better than the government we currently have  , undoubtedly yes  , is Corbyn's utopia the answer , undoubtedly No  (imo)   ... you might argue at least its a step in the right direction , though personally i think we need a different direction , but the social conscience line is best left for virtual signalling on Facebook (respectfully)

[lapal_fan]

This came up on my timeline;

I'm still a bit undecided about my vote direction tomorrow.

I've obviously taken into consideration what I consider to be the following swaying points on the two main parties:

On the one hand the Conservative Boris Johnson is a bit of a rascal  with the ladies and can sometimes bend the truth a bit, ok, a lot.  He’s also a bit posh and can’t really talk in joined up writing. 

And on the other hand..

Labours Jeremy Corbyn Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
Opposed shoot to kill.
Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
Received endorsement from Hamas.
Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.  
Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
Voted against banning support for the IRA.
Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
Voted against control orders.
Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.

So it’s a tricky one really...

 

[Davkaus]

Who posted that, Laura Kuennsberg?

[tonyh29]

Just now, Davkaus said:

Who posted that, Laura Kuennsberg?

Jonathan Ashworth

[bobzy]

26 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

And how does your brother think the country has improved in the last 9 years of Tory rule? How has his life improved?

Harsh to bang on about his brother - as @mrbojangles also stated, there are, unfortunately, many people who seemingly have the same attitude.  The problem is that you don't notice if you're completely insular.  You probably don't necessarily notice the cost of things creeping up.  Most people reflect on a large period of time ("do you remember when a Mars was only 20p?  It's now £1!  How times have changed") rather than small incremental increases.  They could be more frequent and with a greater percentage increase than your annual pay rise, but as you're not reviewing them and they don't relate to you, it's easy to gloss over them and simply focus on earning <x> more per year.

As I said before, it's why we're **** - a lot of people are insular.  They don't care about society as a whole.  Why should I care about the kid lying on coats in a hospital when I/my family/my friends aren't doing that?  I don't, so I ignore it.  However, I do care about being able to buy luxury goods and showing them off, so I'll be damned if people earning less than me can do the same!  Shit viewpoint, but plenty will have it.

 

(That said, I bet v4e's brother is furious that those earning less also benefited from a personal allowance increase... )

[HanoiVillan]

Battle of the Arsenal right-backs.

On the one hand, Lee 'Melt' Dixon:

On the other, Hector 'Comrade' Bellerin:

(Had to make it an image for language reasons)

 

[StefanAVFC]

29 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

he wouldn't be able to measure it because he's come off a minimum wage 0 hour contract, in to social housing and had 3 kids in the last 9 years, lives a completely different life under this government 

probably the same as me, he thought blair and brown were **** idiots (for different reasons) not a clue what his brexits thoughts are

hard to tell but one of the most visible benefits in the last 9 years would be the personal allowance increase

So, with no disrespect, he was similar to the people he is voting Tory, to stop them getting richer?

[GarethRDR]

17 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.

It's true and I've got the Ministry Of Sound compilation album to prove it.

[Genie]

Some people don't help themselves do they?

Quote

Labour's Diane Abbott started off on the wrong foot today - as she appeared to go out campaigning with odd shoes on the wrong feet.

At the end of a long and gruelling winter election campaign she turned out to support Labour colleague Meg Hillier in her neighbouring East London constituency of Hackney South.

But Twitter users quickly spotted something was up when Ms Hillier posted a picture of them online.  

Ms Abbott appeared to be wearing two left shoes. 

Link

Edited December 12, 2019 by Genie