The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[villa4europe]

33 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

17K a year and voting Tory.

You have been well and truly duped my friend.

disagree and I think a lot of people would be surprised by how many normal working class people feel the same

labour don't do enough to convince working class people that they represent them and not the non working class, Kidderminster is a pretty safe tory seat

and that's before you factor in Brexit (kiddy voted leave)

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

disagree and I think a lot of people would be surprised by how many normal working class people feel the same

labour don't do enough to convince working class people that they represent them and not the non working class, Kidderminster is a pretty safe tory seat

and that's before you factor in Brexit (kiddy voted leave)

Nothing you've said disputes my point.

Those people who 'feel' the same have been duped also.

The Tories don't give a shit about poor people.

[magnkarl]

36 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

I've been puzzled by this opinion so I'm going to take the opportunity to ask someone with it, outside of Twitter or Facebook where I would certainly not get a sensible response, what is it that makes Corbyn dangerous?

For me there are many reasons why I think Corbyn would be a trailer crash of a PM.

a) he doesn't seem to have any idea of the consequences when he meets groups for "peace talks" - he's the kind of guy I see going in to a conflict talking only to his pre-disposed left leaning group and talking only to them. The world is more nuanced than what Corbyn and his rag tag band of "politicians" seem to understand.

b) his PR team is a total car crash. Why has no one vetted the situations that Corbyn has found himself in in the past and told him that for example calling Hamas his "friends" when at this point they had wiping Jews and Israel off the map as their number one publicly announced goal a terrible idea?

c) Corbyn and his team has shown time and time again that they have absolutely no grasp of economics. They live on this sort of fairy cloud (so does Johnson) where one only has to ask the gods of money to be able to afford i.e police. (remember that situation with Abbott and the police?) Both the leading parties are going to trash our economy, and to be honest it's not like Labour has a great track record in this regard.

d) Corbyn is (was - he's probably been forced otherwise now) going against his voting majority when it comes to his stance on brexit. He's only strong when it comes to one thing and that is when someone challenges his behaviour in regards to apologising for his stupid decisions in the past - in which case he'll change the subject strongly.

e) He associates and has associated with a whole host of sketchy people at best. If he doesn't understand the complications in aligning with known holocaust deniers and people who do nothing but hate then he's simply unfit for any sort of public office.

f) He's turned labour into some sort of tribal group where moderate opinions aren't appreciated. He and his supporters will use whatever means to get rid of people who disagree with his politics which renders labour more and more intellectually anemic. (see defections in the last year alone)

Your question was only for Corbyn, I think Johnson is going to be even more of a car crash so it's not like I think the tories are any better.

Edited December 12, 2019 by magnkarl

[villa4europe]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

Nothing you've said disputes my point.

Those people who 'feel' the same have been duped also.

The Tories don't give a shit about poor people.

that's the thing, labour don't give a shit about poor people like us

labour are for the couple next door who have a ropey income stream propped up by hand outs to feed the 4 kids they've got in their free house, Corbyn wants to give them more, working class people on 50 hour weeks earning their way to their kids hopefully getting out of it? that's not labour

the shock for some is that the disdain for the very poor people is actually very high among poor people

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

that's the thing, labour don't give a shit about poor people like us

labour are for the couple next door who have a ropey income stream propped up by hand outs to feed the 4 kids they've got in their free house, Corbyn wants to give them more, working class people on 50 hour weeks earning their way to their kids hopefully getting out of it? that's not labour

the shock for some is that the disdain for the very poor people is actually very high among poor people

Lazy stereotypes about poor people. Pretty awful.

Also pretty awful that 'poor' people are directing their anger at poorer people. Rather than the rich and ruling class who have made their lives worse for the last 9 years.

Also replace 'very poor' with 'EU' and the point is the same.

Edited December 12, 2019 by StefanAVFC

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Lazy stereotypes about poor people. Pretty awful.

not really, that's how I grew up, that's the experience I have, that's how people vote in my area and the reason why

stating that they are "duped" is also a lazy stereotype, working class people who vote tory are doing it due to lack of intelligence?

Edited December 12, 2019 by villa4europe

[Genie]

8 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

For me there are many reasons why I think Corbyn would be a trailer crash of a PM.

a) he doesn't seem to have any idea of the consequences when he meets groups for "peace talks" - he's the kind of guy I see going in to a conflict talking only to his pre-disposed left leaning group and talking only to them. The world is more nuanced than what Corbyn and his rag tag band of "politicians" seem to understand.

b) his PR team is a total car crash. Why has no one vetted the situations that Corbyn has found himself in in the past and told him that for example calling Hamas his "friends" when at this point they had wiping Jews and Israel off the map as their number one publicly announced goal a terrible idea?

c) Corbyn and his team has shown time and time again that they have absolutely no grasp of economics. They live on this sort of fairy cloud (so does Johnson) where one only has to ask the gods of money to be able to afford i.e police. (remember that situation with Abbott and the police?) Both the leading parties are going to trash our economy, and to be honest it's not like Labour has a great track record in this regard.

d) Corbyn is (was - he's probably been forced otherwise now) going against his voting majority when it comes to his stance on brexit. He's only strong when it comes to one thing and that is when someone challenges his behaviour in regards to apologising for his stupid decisions in the past - in which case he'll change the subject strongly.

e) He associates and has associated with a whole host of sketchy people at best. If he doesn't understand the complications in aligning with known holocaust deniers and people who do nothing but hate then he's simply unfit for any sort of public office.

f) He's turned labour into some sort of tribal group where moderate opinions aren't appreciated. He and his supporters will use whatever means to get rid of people who disagree with his politics which renders labour more and more intellectually anemic. (see defections in the last year alone)

Your question was only for Corbyn, I think Johnson is going to be even more of a car crash so it's not like I think the tories are any better.

None of that sounds particularly "dangerous" to me. His maths can be a bit ambitious (same as all the others) and he's been photographed with some undesirables.

 

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Lazy stereotypes about poor people. Pretty awful.

Whereas lazy stereotypes about tories, top class!

[Wainy316]

My 35th birthday today.  Pretty grim that if today goes as I think I’ll be living under a Tory majority at least until I’m 40

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

stating that they are "duped" is also a lazy stereotype, working class people who vote tory are doing it due to lack of intelligence?

Interesting interpretation.

I've edited my post but I'll add it here.

If 'poor' people are blaming very poor people for their ills rather than the Tories and rich, then they have been duped. I'm sorry. The very poor (poor family with 4 kids and a free house) are not the reason that the 'poor' are 'poor'. Sorry but it's all a con.

Replace very poor with the EU and the same is true.

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, WhatAboutTheFinish said:

Whereas lazy stereotypes about tories, top class!

Which lazy stereotype would that be? 

[Genie]

Just now, Wainy316 said:

My 35th birthday today.  Pretty grim that if today goes as I think I’ll be living under a Tory majority at least until I’m 40

Happy Birthday mate. Get drunk.

[Wainy316]

Just now, Genie said:

Happy Birthday mate. Get drunk.

Thanks I certainly will!

Much preferred my 25th.  Gabby winner at Old Trafford.

[tonyh29]

2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

My 35th birthday today.  Pretty grim that if today goes as I think I’ll be living under a Tory majority at least until I’m 40

and when you turn 40 you'll start voting Tory as well

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

Early predictions?
Tory majority of 50.

[Jareth]

6 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

My 35th birthday today.  Pretty grim that if today goes as I think I’ll be living under a Tory majority at least until I’m 40

I've been gaming this out, like I did before the play-off final. So reasons to be cheerful if Boris wins are -

Brexit happens on 31st jan and we crash out Dec 2020

Powers of the executive are strengthened and those of the courts lessened

Matt Hancock and Dominic Raab on telly every other day

 

 

Ok, I'm moving to Scotland. 

[markavfc40]

Best case scenario I can see is a hung parliament and Raab, IDS and Johnson losing their seats.

Most likely is a Tory majority of at least 20.

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

Interesting interpretation.

I've edited my post but I'll add it here.

If 'poor' people are blaming very poor people for their ills rather than the Tories and rich, then they have been duped. I'm sorry. The very poor (poor family with 4 kids and a free house) are not the reason that the 'poor' are 'poor'. Sorry but it's all a con.

Replace very poor with the EU and the same is true.

im not suggesting they blame them for their ills

take it as a very basic interpretation of labour in general, they paint billionaires as villains, they want to take more money off them to give to the poorest, the problem being that poor people don't like the poorest and don't know and therefore don't really care about billionaires

labour misinterpret the significance of rich people in the mindset of the poor, from my experience poor people hate poorer people more than they hate the rich, mainly because the disparity between them is small and labour will make it smaller, what's the point of your grind in that case? there's a want to disassociate yourself with "scroungers" and minimum wage earners in order to feel worthwhile in what you're doing, the tories in a warped way provide that whereas labour are the opposite

I know a lot of working class tory voters, majority I would say are of the belief that they are working for a lower middle class future for their kids

FWIW I don't vote for tory or labour

[magnkarl]

13 minutes ago, Genie said:

None of that sounds particularly "dangerous" to me. His maths can be a bit ambitious (same as all the others) and he's been photographed with some undesirables.

 

If you think Corbyn's only connections to undesirables are photographs then you are wrong my friend. At the very least taking money to go on Iranian Press TV should tell you all you need to know about the guy.

Edited December 12, 2019 by magnkarl

[snowychap]

14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Also pretty awful that 'poor' people are directing their anger at poorer people.

Divide and conquer.