HanoiVillan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: We already have the: "We need premier league experience, we signed too many hopefuls" * club sign an experienced premier league player "Boooo, he is rubbish, if he was any good he would not have been on Chelsea's bench" "We need an experienced keeper, Nyland is rubbish" * club sign a vastly experienced keeper with an impressive record at premier league level "Boooo, he is old and hasn't played for *ages* "Kodjia is crap, he should never play for Villa again" * Club sells Kodjia for a remarkable fee "Boooo, why did we sell Kodjia - we need him or we will be relegated" "We haven't signed a striker yet and it is day 15" * Club signs a striker with a very good record in the Belgian league "Booo, I have never seen this guy play but I have decided he is not premier league quality, we need better quality signings" * Manager states that we are working on another striker "Booooo, he should have been here on day 1, the club are incompetent." To what extent are these ideas coming from the same posters, as opposed to different posters with different opinions? I'm sure there are one or two people on here who have made all of these opposite arguments (although some of them, specifically the first one and the last one, aren't actually contradictory) but to be honest I ignore those posters who are clearly wind-up merchants, and would encourage others to do the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted January 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Those seem like two different arguments. Your second line I completely agree with! The season is not even close to over, we are very much in touch, we now have a striker who may turn out to be good, and hope is very far from lost. The problem for me is the first line. I'm sure the target set at the start of the season was to stay up as a minimum. Failing to do so will be a failure, however difficult the task was, and in the review of PL 19/20 that we would/will have afterwards, recruitment will rightly be one of the areas looked at. No, they aren't really - they're one in the same. At the end of the season, 3 teams have to be relegated. We came up via the playoffs and have bought a new team (almost). All other clubs in the Premier League have tried to strengthen - arguably all of them were in a better position due to FFP and squad position. If we happen to get relegated, we happen to get relegated. Personally, I think most of the recruiting we've done has been decent enough. Nothing exceptional, nothing terrible, just... decent enough. It's also quite well-suited toward the future assuming that the younger players (Wesley, Konsa, Luiz) improve as players. Reading the forum these days, I can't help but feel that people really had far too high expectations for this season. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbojangles Posted January 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said: That's actually not the video I saw, but I still think he looks bang average. And that's bang average in a league where Hogan would score 40 goals. I cannot believe not one fellow VT member has called you up on this in over an hour. Hogan wouldn't score 40 goals a season in a girls under 10's team (assuming they even allowed him into the starting line up) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, bobzy said: If we happen to get relegated, we happen to get relegated. Personally, I think most of the recruiting we've done has been decent enough. Nothing exceptional, nothing terrible, just... decent enough. It's also quite well-suited toward the future assuming that the younger players (Wesley, Konsa, Luiz) improve as players. Reading the forum these days, I can't help but feel that people really had far too high expectations for this season. Regarding the bolded, I just don't think the club will be that sanguine about it. They have a target to be competing towards the top of the Premier League, and if they take seriously the process of setting goals and evaluating progress towards those goals (and frankly, if they don't, I would be very surprised) then they will need to see relegation as a failure. Regarding the other points, I agree with you that one possible way the recruitment could be defended in the event of relegation would be to say 'well, they'll come good next year, we'll storm the Championship, and then we won't need a whole new team next time we come up'. I have my view on that argument, but yes, other views may be available, and it can only be proved right or wrong by time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Regarding the bolded, I just don't think the club will be that sanguine about it. They have a target to be competing towards the top of the Premier League, and if they take seriously the process of setting goals and evaluating progress towards those goals (and frankly, if they don't, I would be very surprised) then they will need to see relegation as a failure. Regarding the other points, I agree with you that one possible way the recruitment could be defended in the event of relegation would be to say 'well, they'll come good next year, we'll storm the Championship, and then we won't need a whole new team next time we come up'. I have my view on that argument, but yes, other views may be available, and it can only be proved right or wrong by time. Oh, sure. They won't be like "hey guys, good job but we went down". They'll evaluate everything - and rightly so - however, I believe that we are likely candidates to go down this season. We were before the season started and we are now. It wouldn't be unexpected. Therefore, to blame poor recruitment seems... I don't know, a bit short sighted. Particularly as it hasn't been that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, mrbojangles said: I cannot believe not one fellow VT member has called you up on this in over an hour. Hogan wouldn't score 40 goals a season in a girls under 10's team (assuming they even allowed him into the starting line up) That’s because a girls under 10’s team can’t play to Hogan’s strengths! I’d argue that any female couldn’t!! Edited January 21, 2020 by ferguson1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2020 48 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: To what extent are these ideas coming from the same posters, as opposed to different posters with different opinions? I'm sure there are one or two people on here who have made all of these opposite arguments (although some of them, specifically the first one and the last one, aren't actually contradictory) but to be honest I ignore those posters who are clearly wind-up merchants, and would encourage others to do the same. I think the point is "You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 If we get relegated, is it fair to say our transfer activity has been poor? Or am I over simplifying things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Those seem like two different arguments. Your second line I completely agree with! The season is not even close to over, we are very much in touch, we now have a striker who may turn out to be good, and hope is very far from lost. The problem for me is the first line. I'm sure the target set at the start of the season was to stay up as a minimum. Failing to do so will be a failure, however difficult the task was, and in the review of PL 19/20 that we would/will have afterwards, recruitment will rightly be one of the areas looked at. We weren't in a position to spend anywhere the going rate for prem quality players for all the players we had to buy (2/3 of a squad really). So I'd say it was nigh on impossible for them all to work out. Even paying 3 times what we paid per player would have been no guarantee. Yep look at the recruitment at the end of the season but in context, we were forced into buying a tea and a bench just to have the numbers to take part. Even spending what we did we were a couple short in hindsight, which is an insane thing to say seeing as we signed so many. For what we paid per player, still being competitive isn't a bad result really. We could have unearthed some gems but that's not really happened and it could have gone a lot lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: If we get relegated, is it fair to say our transfer activity has been poor? Or am I over simplifying things? The squad was in such a bad state at the end of last season, we had to rebuild, it was a gamble. If we finish 17th, I’d be over the moon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, bobzy said: No, they aren't really - they're one in the same. At the end of the season, 3 teams have to be relegated. We came up via the playoffs and have bought a new team (almost). All other clubs in the Premier League have tried to strengthen - arguably all of them were in a better position due to FFP and squad position. If we happen to get relegated, we happen to get relegated. Personally, I think most of the recruiting we've done has been decent enough. Nothing exceptional, nothing terrible, just... decent enough. It's also quite well-suited toward the future assuming that the younger players (Wesley, Konsa, Luiz) improve as players. Reading the forum these days, I can't help but feel that people really had far too high expectations for this season. We can still finish top 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: If we get relegated, is it fair to say our transfer activity has been poor? Or am I over simplifying things? I think you've answered your own question. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: If we get relegated, is it fair to say our transfer activity has been poor? Or am I over simplifying things? If we stay up does it mean our transfer activity has been good ? Edited January 21, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If we stay up does it mean our transfer activity has been good ? I’m not being pedantic. It’s a genuine question. If we stay up, I’d happily say the transfer activity has been good and that perhaps I misjudged it. Relegation/Survival is obviously the acid test for everything though. Just interested to hear opinions on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, ozvillafan said: I think the point is "You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't" I think it's more 'you're damned if you lose and less so if you win'. If we win a couple of games in the next month and it starts to look like we'll stay up, people will be back to talking more about how good the recruitment was, as they were earlier in the season. It could be argued that that's 'fickle', but if success is 17th and failure is 18th, that's a very thin line, so people will have different perspectives depending on the table that week. 7 minutes ago, romavillan said: We weren't in a position to spend anywhere the going rate for prem quality players for all the players we had to buy (2/3 of a squad really). So I'd say it was nigh on impossible for them all to work out. Even paying 3 times what we paid per player would have been no guarantee. Yep look at the recruitment at the end of the season but in context, we were forced into buying a tea and a bench just to have the numbers to take part. Even spending what we did we were a couple short in hindsight, which is an insane thing to say seeing as we signed so many. For what we paid per player, still being competitive isn't a bad result really. We could have unearthed some gems but that's not really happened and it could have gone a lot lot worse. I think that's a fair analysis. In many ways we're doing okay, given the difficulties we had. But the lack of a striker has been poor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: We can still finish top 6 I just want to leave it out there that if you are looking to have a bet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, bobzy said: No, they aren't really - they're one in the same. At the end of the season, 3 teams have to be relegated. We came up via the playoffs and have bought a new team (almost). All other clubs in the Premier League have tried to strengthen - arguably all of them were in a better position due to FFP and squad position. If we happen to get relegated, we happen to get relegated. Personally, I think most of the recruiting we've done has been decent enough. Nothing exceptional, nothing terrible, just... decent enough. It's also quite well-suited toward the future assuming that the younger players (Wesley, Konsa, Luiz) improve as players. Reading the forum these days, I can't help but feel that people really had far too high expectations for this season. I don’t think anyone has set expectations any higher than staying up. I think the certainty of losing Grealish if we go down is heightening anxiety amongst posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just now, Delphinho123 said: I’m not being pedantic. It’s a genuine question. If we stay up, I’d happily say the transfer activity has been good and that perhaps I misjudged it. Relegation/Survival is obviously the acid test for everything though. Just interested to hear opinions on it. If we go down I would say for the purposes of staying up recruitment wasn't good enough. However if we then retain most the players and storm the Championship coming up a much better team that needs a few more additions then we could look back at some of these signings and say they were decent. I think players like Trez, Nakamba, Luiz and Wesley all needed at least a year in this country before we see the best of them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: If we get relegated, is it fair to say our transfer activity has been poor? Or am I over simplifying things? Yes i think you are over simplifying things. Rebuilding the squad and attracting players to a 3rd place playoff team was always going to be hard but they did it and I dont remember many on here complaining when we signed Mings and co. Luis people were creaming over. Wes was an unknown but there was another striker we were also looking to bring in that we didnt which i think might be our down fall if we do down and is the only thing I can really criticise. I dont remember any players we signed that people werent hopeful over. Many on here have talked about for years about not wasting money on has beens and developing young talent and that's what we've done. Hindsight is always a great thing and we always knew some players work out and some players wont, that's just standard when you buy players. We've been a bit unlucky with injuries and VAR but it's hard just to blame that, we have been awful recently. But I always thought we'd be between 14th and 19th all the way through the season with 17th and 18th being the average and that's where we are now so I dont see it as problem at the moment. A couple of signings in January, a couple of nice results and things look better. Hopefully we've had our bad run (which every team go through) and we can pick up enough points to get safe. The end of the day 17th this season is a massive achievement. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 21, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I think it's more 'you're damned if you lose and less so if you win'. If we win a couple of games in the next month and it starts to look like we'll stay up, people will be back to talking more about how good the recruitment was, as they were earlier in the season. It could be argued that that's 'fickle', but if success is 17th and failure is 18th, that's a very thin line, so people will have different perspectives depending on the table that week. I think that's a fair analysis. In many ways we're doing okay, given the difficulties we had. But the lack of a striker has been poor. Yeah they were in for another striker right up till the end of the summer window and that would have been massive. Competition for Wes both in training and for the shirt would have helped both us and him massively. Getting a couple in now could save our season. To get 15 players in and be *expecting* us to be safe mid table instead of spending 120m we'd have needed to have spent closer to 300m. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts