Douglas Luiz

[andym]

4 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

we do lack height all over the pitch, we get bullied on set pieces by teams with bigger players, even against Brentford who have more height.

not saying the DM has to be the one to win balls in the air, but we need some players who can do that.

Only 3 teams conceded less goals from set pieces last season. We let in 7, and 2 of those were Ward-Prowse free kicks straight into the top corner.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

5 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

we do lack height all over the pitch, we get bullied on set pieces by teams with bigger players, even against Brentford who have more height.

not saying the DM has to be the one to win balls in the air, but we need some players who can do that.

And yet, last season we conceded the joint lowest amount of goals from set pieces. 

Edit - according to Andy above I am wrong, although I was discounting direct free kicks. It has been a while since I read this!

Edited September 3, 2021 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, andym said:

Only 3 teams conceded less goals from set pieces last season. We let in 7, and 2 of those were Ward-Prowse free kicks straight into the top corner.

Don't forget the whipped in free kick from JWP headed in by 6'15 Vestegaard over McGinn. Almost half our conceded goals in 1 game

[Spoony]

Bit of a weird one for me. I’m not lucky enough to catch all Villa games due to time difference but when I do watch Villa I’m not sure he has ever stood out for me other than the PL restart period. Maybe that’s ok as his job isn’t to shine, but I just feel like with him, McGinn and then some random next to them we don’t have anyone commanding the midfield.

I definitely think he can improve but I also think he absolutely has to. IMO don’t have one CM who is undroppable or even who shouldn’t be replaced.  

[StanBalaban]

18 hours ago, TRO said:

maybe you haven't been explaining well enough.

so for the want of a reasonable debate.....is Rice and phillips modern day defensive midfielders.....is Ndidi one or Bissouma?

what is the prime function of one?

At the end of the day...its all about winning games and securing points and to do that you have to score more goals than you concede to have a chance......how we set up, will be judged on the results.

 

You almost answered a question yourself there indirectly, in that Rice and Phillips are two different types of player that are both classed as a DM. I think Southgate is in the minority where he thinks we need both on the pitch in every game. 

Against opposition where we should have more of the ball, you'd only need Phillips there, with Rice's spot being freed-up up for a more creative player. Against opposition that are expected to have a good chunk of possession, England need a player to protect the back 4 more and win the ball back more frequently.

I think Smith is going for the former, in having us retain a lot more of the ball negating the need to win it back so often. I would see Dougie as more of a Phillips than a Rice.

[TRO]

9 hours ago, StanBalaban said:

You almost answered a question yourself there indirectly, in that Rice and Phillips are two different types of player that are both classed as a DM. I think Southgate is in the minority where he thinks we need both on the pitch in every game. 

Against opposition where we should have more of the ball, you'd only need Phillips there, with Rice's spot being freed-up up for a more creative player. Against opposition that are expected to have a good chunk of possession, England need a player to protect the back 4 more and win the ball back more frequently.

I think Smith is going for the former, in having us retain a lot more of the ball negating the need to win it back so often. I would see Dougie as more of a Phillips than a Rice.

yeah I see that.

maybe the classifications can mislead the interpretations.

Edited September 4, 2021 by TRO

[thunderball]

Southgate wouldnt make a club manager, he is preoccupied about not losing at the expense of all else. He likes to exercise control but he can’t balance that with offensive play from open play situations given the talent at his disposal. Smith is better than that, he has to be.

[VillanousOne]

On 03/09/2021 at 23:15, andym said:

Only 3 teams conceded less goals from set pieces last season. We let in 7, and 2 of those were Ward-Prowse free kicks straight into the top corner.

Fair enough we defend them well as Mings and Martinez have good height, Konsa isn't small either, but i would say the stats for us scoring from set pieces probably isn't as good as it should be.

Either way our midfield don't win enough headers, or tackles, we loose the ball fair too easily, I agree winning tackles and 50/50s isn't just about height, but we do lack that fire in midfield. Opposition teams are getting wise to McGinn's attempts to arse their players off the ball.

But back on topic is Doug involved in all the isolation nonsense?

Edited September 5, 2021 by VillanousOne

[villalad21]

21 hours ago, thunderball said:

Southgate wouldnt make a club manager, he is preoccupied about not losing at the expense of all else. He likes to exercise control but he can’t balance that with offensive play from open play situations given the talent at his disposal. Smith is better than that, he has to be.

We've looked anything but free flowing so far. 

And Smith has proved without Grealish his football is dull. 

[MaVilla]

57 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

But back on topic is Doug involved in all the isolation nonsense?

nah, he didnt make the Brazil squad, he's at Bodymoor training with all the others who didnt go on international duty.

Edited September 5, 2021 by MaVilla

[VillanousOne]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

nah, he didnt make the Brazil squad, he's at Bodymoor training with all the others who didnt go on international duty.

ah thanks for the update and that is good news

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

Fair enough we defend them well as Mings and Martinez have good height, Konsa isn't small either, but i would say the stats for us scoring from set pieces probably isn't as good as it should be.

Either way our midfield don't win enough headers, or tackles, we loose the ball fair too easily, I agree winning tackles and 50/50s isn't just about height, but we do lack that fire in midfield. Opposition teams are getting wise to McGinn's attempts to arse their players off the ball.

But back on topic is Doug involved in all the isolation nonsense?

We were 8th, 5 behind West Ham who had the most and clear of teams like Burnley, Newcastle and West Brom 

[VillanousOne]

20 minutes ago, Zatman said:

We were 8th, 5 behind West Ham who had the most and clear of teams like Burnley, Newcastle and West Brom 

Thanks for the info, do you think our midfield is good enough as it is then?

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Thanks for the info, do you think our midfield is good enough as it is then?

depends on what the aim is, its a Premier League midtable midfield but we are missing a creative central player. It could be Sanson we havent seen him yet but I think its a lot better than people make it out to be 

[VillanousOne]

9 minutes ago, Zatman said:

depends on what the aim is, its a Premier League midtable midfield but we are missing a creative central player. It could be Sanson we havent seen him yet but I think its a lot better than people make it out to be 

It isn't that bad, but you can see why a lot of people have anxiety about our midfield, last season it was often hard to see who was playing what role and we look unbalanced.

I rate Doug and SJM but I rarely understand where they are asked to play and what their role is. They don't seem to compliment each other well but I think Doug has the better technical footballing brain and positional sense.

With Nakamba at least I can say he plays in front of the back 4 as a defensive midfielder. At the end of last season he and SJM looked much better together than SJM and Doug (in my opinion).

But I think Doug is out best midfielder by a long way.

I think Sanson looks similar to McGinn (although early days yet), Ramsey also looks more offensive minded than defensive minded.

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

It isn't that bad, but you can see why a lot of people have anxiety about our midfield, last season it was often hard to see who was playing what role and we look unbalanced.

I rate Doug and SJM but I rarely understand where they are asked to play and what their role is. They don't seem to compliment each other well but I think Doug has the better technical footballing brain and positional sense.

With Nakamba at least I can say he plays in front of the back 4 as a defensive midfielder. At the end of last season he and SJM looked much better together than SJM and Doug (in my opinion).

But I think Doug is out best midfielder by a long way.

I think Sanson looks similar to McGinn (although early days yet), Ramsey also looks more offensive minded than defensive minded.

I think McGinn is a bit of a problem, I do like him but I think he lacks tactical discipline. Dougie job is to sweep up in front of the defence and start attacks.  

Last season they looked poor because they were both cleaning up Barkley laziness at time which didnt help either, with Ramsey or Sanson or even Nakamba they look a bit better as no huge gaps

[thunderball]

14 hours ago, villalad21 said:

We've looked anything but free flowing so far. 

And Smith has proved without Grealish his football is dull. 

I would agree, however in mitigation he has had a very disrupted start to the season. I would reserve judgement until he has everyone at his disposal. I think he needs Ings, Watkins, Buendia and Bailey/Traore/AEG to play together to demonstrate his intention. 4-4-2 is a radical change for us.

I had expected: Grealish - Watkins - Buendia infront of McGinn - Smith Rowe - Luiz/Sanson. Obviously Grealish leaving and Ings arriving changes that. 

[Keener window-cleaner]

If someone had doubts about his defensive qualities, look at how he won the ball back at a couple of occations when Havertz got the ball in dangerous positions when they hit us on the break. Super player, and so good in this anchor position.

[sne]

2 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

If someone had doubts about his defensive qualities, look at how he won the ball back at a couple of occations when Havertz got the ball in dangerous positions when they hit us on the break. Super player, and so good in this anchor position.

Really impressive first half.

[MotoMkali]

1 minute ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

If someone had doubts about his defensive qualities, look at how he won the ball back at a couple of occations when Havertz got the ball in dangerous positions when they hit us on the break. Super player, and so good in this anchor position.

His defensive strength isn't tackles or interceptions. Its him just being there to collect loose balls that would normally result in 50/50s that lead to goals.