Douglas Luiz

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

You mean my comments about moving him further up the pitch? 

Considering his idol growing up was Ronaldinho I'm sure he wouldn't mind that! 

Well I read his idol was Lucas Leiva so sounds like more hogwash to me.

[KentVillan]

Yeah tbf, I don't think the criticism of Luiz has been too harsh. I disagree with a lot of it, but it's mostly about his actions as a player on the pitch from game to game. Other players have had it a lot worse.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, osmark86 said:

Just in case he reads it: 

You're great Doug! 

Just in case you're reading Doug you're:

- Too short

- Not big

- Not black.

- Don't wear a hairband.

BOOOOO!!!!!!

[TRO]

I think Dougie is a very good footballer, who is gifted with balance and passing ability.....his vision, is not to be sniffed at either.

I have been keen for some time , to beef up our midfield, but retain the passing ability and balance Dougie brings, in truth, I see him more fitting in to an 8 as opposed to a 6......However, if Dougie brought some fire and brimstone to his game, I would be the first to come on here and praise him for it....I am still hopeful he will.

[CVByrne]

If we make something simple, like top trumps / football manager with this where you have passing, tackling, workrate, pressing, vision, creativity, shooting etc.. I think Dean wants a bunch of different midfielders with different key attributes and ideally no glaring weaknesses. Then from this array of midfielders he can select the right combinations based on the opposition, fitness and form.

Dougie has enough quality and time on his side to be one of those players to be picked from

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Yeah tbf, I don't think the criticism of Luiz has been too harsh. I disagree with a lot of it, but it's mostly about his actions as a player on the pitch from game to game. Other players have had it a lot worse.

As we all know, this great game is all about opinions, I guess the 20 premier league managers have a difference of opinion on many things apertaining to the game.

It would be strange if we all agreed.

back to Doug

I think Dougie would serve us better further forward, that is not blaming him , for who he is in terms of his talent.....my beef is, we are missing certain attributes in defensive situations, which is not entirely his fault, he can't be, what he's not.....That is for Dean to see.

If Dean is aware, which I would be staggered if he wasn't, it just means, Dean and I see it differently.

Dean is the manager, so I just have to get on with it......However, I would be equally staggered If I was the only one ,who feels we needed to beef up our centre midfield.....if he addresses it in another way, great.

I thought someone would have come in.

[villalad21]

28 minutes ago, TRO said:

I must be honest....I don't go on other sites....but I agree, most of the criticism is constructive, on here.

and personally, I see no harm in counter comments promoting their view, I love positive views, providing they have foundation and substance......when the "idiot"...."clueless"....."moaner" lines get rolled out, the debate is lost.

I do tend to struggle with the " look where we have come from" when talking about a single game....who said " look where we have come from " when we dismantled Liverpool and Arsenal or spurs and chelsea.

you might get the odd one, which is just a rant.

For me, if someone just praises all the time or just criticises too.....I think the balance gets lost....if someone keeps stum, when its time to praise or keeps stum when its time to point out a few home truths, it is equally an imbalance.

I'm not even saying I want him out of the team.

I just want to see him further forward as I don't see his qualities as a player being maximized playing at DM.

He doesn't have those defensive instincts. When I watch Fernandiho play he always bust a gut out to win the ball back. He is super aggressive and tenacious. Dougie just isn't that player for me.

[KentVillan]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

As we all know, this great game is all about opinions, I guess the 20 premier league managers have a difference of opinion on many things apertaining to the game.

It would be strange if we all agreed.

back to Doug

I think Dougie would serve us better further forward, that is not blaming him , for who he is in terms of his talent.....my beef is, we are missing certain attributes in defensive situations, which is not entirely his fault, he can't be, what he's not.....That is for Dean to see.

If Dean is aware, which I would be staggered if he wasn't, it just means, Dean and I see it differently.

Dean is the manager, so I just have to get on with it......However, I would be equally staggered If I was the only one ,who feels we needed to beef up our centre midfield.....if he addresses it in another way, great.

I thought someone would have come in.

One of my theories is that Shakespeare wants us to try a more compact 4-4-2 with a hard working midfield 4.

In that shape you'd have two of Buendia/Bailey/Traore/Young/JPB as hardworking wide mids providing a lot of defensive support, you'd also have both strikers (especially Watkins) doing a lot of tracking back. (You can even have one of the strikers drop back wide to make it a 4-5-1 defensively).

Then for the middle 2, that box-to-box role is probably the natural position for McGinn, Sanson, and (by some people's reckoning) Dougie. Chuk also looks like a natural 8.

Maybe opinions of our centre mids will change as we see them doing more of a box-to-box role, instead of fixed defensive/attacking roles in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1.

I know there's a school of thought that 4-4-2 doesn't work anymore, but it's been used quite successfully by teams like Leicester and Atletico Madrid in recent years as a defensively solid counter-attacking shape.

The big issue for Luiz last season (IMO) was Ross Barkley. I also think our tactic of running everything through Grealish left Luiz ignored in space quite a lot. Put him with a busier midfield and I think it's a different proposition.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I'm not even saying I want him out of the team.

I just want to see him further forward as I don't see his qualities as a player being maximized playing at DM.

He doesn't have those defensive instincts. When I watch Fernandiho play he always bust a gut out to win the ball back. He is super aggressive and tenacious. Dougie just isn't that player for me.

Did you ever watch Fernandino at 23? No didn’t think so. 

[Tomaszk]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Did you ever watch Fernandino at 23? No didn’t think so. 

He'd played two seasons in Brazil and three seasons in the Ukrainian league

Doug is on eight Brazil caps right now. Fernandinho was 29 by the time he managed it.

The impatience with Doug here is a mixture of greediness, incomprehension and trolling.

We'll regret it if he doesn't sign a new deal and leaves next summer. Jordan Veretout made his debut for the world champions last night...

Edited September 2, 2021 by Tomaszk

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

He'd played two seasons in Brazil and three seasons in the Ukrainian league

The impatience with Doug here is a mixture of greediness, incomprehension and trolling.

We'll regret it if he doesn't sign a new deal and leaves next summer. Jordan Veretout made his debut for the world champions last night...

Yep he is definitely a player if we sold now we would regret in 5 years

[sharkyvilla]

The club will also know for sure whether Doug was one of the ones who suffered from covid and the likelihood of him returning to his top form.  No doubt he was doing the job Dean wants (not the job that people here think a defensive midfielder has to do) very well for a significant time in our run of best form and if the expectation is that he will get back to those levels again, why would they want to replace him?

[TRO]

45 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I'm not even saying I want him out of the team.

I just want to see him further forward as I don't see his qualities as a player being maximized playing at DM.

He doesn't have those defensive instincts. When I watch Fernandiho play he always bust a gut out to win the ball back. He is super aggressive and tenacious. Dougie just isn't that player for me.

I see the same....but we have to accept some folk disagree with our view.

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Just in case you're reading Doug you're:

- Not black.

Erm....

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Erm....

 

Enough!

It's Jet black or bust with a proper DM.

None of this cute caramel nonsense.

Edited September 2, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[sne]

It is a fine VT tradition to want to move players from their current position and it's still going strong.

Ings to #10, Watkins back to the wing, Tuanzebe to DCM, Luiz as a #8 or #10...

Not a new thing, I wanted Milner in central midfield for a long time before MON moved him there. Then again he thought Mellberg and Cuellar were RB's. Pretty sure only Bruce thought Jedi was a CB thou  

[a m ole]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Just in case you're reading Doug you're:

- Too short

- Not big

- Not black.

- Don't wear a hairband.

BOOOOO!!!!!!

Serious question, is he not considered black? I know he’s not black enough to be a VillaTalk DM but…

Edit: just read you’ve covered this!

Edited September 2, 2021 by a m ole

[TRO]

1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said:

The club will also know for sure whether Doug was one of the ones who suffered from covid and the likelihood of him returning to his top form.  No doubt he was doing the job Dean wants (not the job that people here think a defensive midfielder has to do) very well for a significant time in our run of best form and if the expectation is that he will get back to those levels again, why would they want to replace him?

We as fans can only comment on what we know, for sure somethings we are not privvy to, so our comments will be subject to that .

Unless Dean tells us ,we will not know, Doug might have been doing the best he can and Dean had no one else to fulfill ALL his requirements, we just don't know.

If Doug can fulfill all the requirements of a quality DM why indeed would we need to replace him, absolutely agree.

The difference of opinion, is shared by many pundits and fans who have many years of experience too.....only time will tell if Dean has it right and as you suggest, he wants to play that way.

I also agree Dougie did come back after Covid and showed the form many of his doubters, have been talking about.....so he can do it.

form is a tricky thing to tie down, and the very best players as you know, have shorter form dips than lesser players, so eventually any player with long form dips will be questioned as to their suitability to their team.

As just a bit of fun, I would doubt any of the top 10 teams would swap our no 6 for theirs, it might just tell us something if in fact we want to look.

Finally, I have to say, nothing would please me more if he could add that edge to his game.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

It’s not like he’s never done it. Was the best defensive midfield we’ve had in years post lockdown 2 seasons ago. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

One of my theories is that Shakespeare wants us to try a more compact 4-4-2 with a hard working midfield 4.

In that shape you'd have two of Buendia/Bailey/Traore/Young/JPB as hardworking wide mids providing a lot of defensive support, you'd also have both strikers (especially Watkins) doing a lot of tracking back. (You can even have one of the strikers drop back wide to make it a 4-5-1 defensively).

Then for the middle 2, that box-to-box role is probably the natural position for McGinn, Sanson, and (by some people's reckoning) Dougie. Chuk also looks like a natural 8.

Maybe opinions of our centre mids will change as we see them doing more of a box-to-box role, instead of fixed defensive/attacking roles in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1.

I know there's a school of thought that 4-4-2 doesn't work anymore, but it's been used quite successfully by teams like Leicester and Atletico Madrid in recent years as a defensively solid counter-attacking shape.

The big issue for Luiz last season (IMO) was Ross Barkley. I also think our tactic of running everything through Grealish left Luiz ignored in space quite a lot. Put him with a busier midfield and I think it's a different proposition.

I have been watching football for too many years to remember, and its still hard to know, what is the right set up, blimey even Pep got it wrong when it mattered....so many factors emerging from a game are ubiquitous, hence hard to follow, fans follow what they are naturally drawn to, and assume everyone else is wired like them.

The line " you must be watching a different game".....do you know what? we are, through our own lens....that's why IMO it's great to hear what other folks think,afterwards.

I am not wholly convinced on formations, because they morph as the dynamics of the game naturally change, anyway.....I am more influenced by work levels and intensity, sure an overload is an extra pair of feet, so it helps, but it means leaving a gap elsewhere.....thats where football intelligence kicks in, another factor for us to compute.

I am not sure on the Ross Barkley theory, but for sure, if players are not engaging in the contact of the game, opponents, will love that and subsequently steal the initiative, by exploiting space abandoned.

I do think in terms of development Villa still have to catch up with their ability without the ball to their ability with the ball.....I am far less concerned, when we have the ball, than when we haven't.....that should come, as we rise up the table.

I am not a fan, who thinks you can overload a team with attacking players or defensive players and expect to do much......the key balance between the 2 is paramount for me, to progress.

We all try different things to reach the holy grail, I don't think we should get too hung up on differences...trial and error is still alive and kicking.