Douglas Luiz

[Keyblade]

I watched the game again yesterday and one thing that caught my eye was how he bailed us out 3 or 4 times in that first half. He has that uncanny ability to sniff out danger and then get his body between the attacker and the ball. I don't know how that translates to stats, but it was very effective.

[M_Afro]

57 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Have we offered him one as yet.? And if so has he turned it down, no idea if he has

I remember Dean saying that he wanted to talk to him about a new contract (some time ago). I would be surprised if we weren’t in discussions. He starts most weeks and I think he has less than two years to go. 

[TRO]

On 11/09/2021 at 18:30, MotoMkali said:

His defensive strength isn't tackles or interceptions. Its him just being there to collect loose balls that would normally result in 50/50s that lead to goals. 

but that means against top opposition the loose balls will be less and against lesser opposition the loose balls will be more...and more collectable.

In the pursuit of betterment, players have to be more imposing, to make affect( like against Chelsea)......you can play a passive role at a lower level and get away with it, at a higher level a more aggressive/ascertive approach is required to disrupt their composure on the ball.

Edited September 16, 2021 by TRO

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

but that means against top opposition the loose balls will be less and against lesser opposition the loose balls will be more...and more collectable.

In the pursuit of betterment, players have to be more imposing, to make affect......you can play a passive role at a lower level, at a higher level a more aggressive approach is required to disrupt their composure on the ball.

That's why we do our pressing higher up the pitch. If you're aggressive in the midfield, the good teams are able to play around you and before you know it they're in on your defence (see: Kovacic evading over-eager challenges before putting Lukaku through for the first goal).

[TRO]

18 hours ago, Keyblade said:

That's why we do our pressing higher up the pitch. If you're aggressive in the midfield, the good teams are able to play around you and before you know it they're in on your defence (see: Kovacic evading over-eager challenges before putting Lukaku through for the first goal).

I'm not convinced that we can rely on just pressing higher up, that also means balls over the top can undo us.....midfield usually consists of 3 players, I'm not suggesting all 3 have to be aggressive or better put ascertive....but IMO one player has to be.

Kovacic is more a playmaker, Jorginho or Kante is the more ascertive ones.

I am not suggesting we stop pressing higher up.....but I do think prowess somewhere in defence is needed too, someone who can sniff out danger and have the ability to start attacks after securing the ball......a Kevin Richardson type, but better.

We often talk about balance and its getting that right.....We saw last night how RB leipzig was so open and ended up losing 6-3 despite their valiant attacking efforts....they will win many fans, playing like that while the more balanced teams take the trophies.

Edited September 16, 2021 by TRO

[KentVillan]

I was looking at Jorginho vs Douglas Luiz on FBRef from last season.

Basically, Dougie isn’t too far behind Jorginho on defensive stats - a little more improvement on fitness and aggression, and he should be able to get there.

The big difference is Jorginho has unbelievable passing numbers. But this may be because Chelsea deliberately play through him, whereas last year we were always looking for Jack.

If we can start getting more of our build up play going through Dougie, and if he can just improve his defensive stats a bit, then I think there’s a happy medium between what @TROis saying and what @Keybladeis saying re McGinn and co pressing higher up.

The thing we know for certain is that very few CMs peak in their early 20s, so Dougie should keep improving year on year for some time. A lot of CMs hit peak form around 28/29 which is a long way off. I think he’s going to be very good and will benefit from having harder workers in front of him, and a more balanced possession game now Jack has gone.

Edited September 16, 2021 by KentVillan

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I was looking at Jorginho vs Douglas Luiz on FBRef from last season.

Basically, Dougie isn’t too far behind Jorginho on defensive stats - a little more improvement on fitness and aggression, and he should be able to get there.

The big difference is Jorginho has unbelievable passing numbers. But this may be because Chelsea deliberately play through him, whereas last year we were always looking for Jack.

If we can start getting more of our build up play going through Dougie, and if he can just improve his defensive stats a bit, then I think there’s a happy medium between what @TROis saying and what @Keybladeis saying re McGinn and co pressing higher up.

The thing we know for certain is that very few CMs peak in their early 20s, so Dougie should keep improving year on year for some time. A lot of CMs hit peak form around 28/29 which is a long way off. I think he’s going to be very good and will benefit from having harder workers in front of him, and a more balanced possession game now Jack has gone.

I accept that.....Nothing would give me more pleasure, than to see Dougie show a bit more edge.....I can see it coming with JJ and SJM seems to be creeping back to his form that labelled him SJM.

I think Dougie is a bit more like Stan Petrov a pick pocket, more than a ball winner ( but remember, in some quarters Stan had his detractors on that) I remember speaking to Stan and he said " I was always more comfortable when Nigel (NRC) was in the side, to do the ugly work, but the gaffer doesn't care for him"......Hence my view of distinguishing styles in midfield, not all too samey.

It will always be a divided view. 

[Denaldinho]

Quick question as the date of his buy back clause expired?

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Denaldinho said:

Quick question as the date of his buy back clause expired?

yes.

[Indigo]

Been absolutely immense today, in both midfield positions he was asked to perform in. The guy has it in him, just needs to show it like he has in this game with the consistency he's threatened to previously. 

[lexicon]

Lovely pass for the assist today too 

[Farlz]

Dougie is back. 

[Olof82Mellberg4]

Would like to see us play Nakamba, Luiz and Ramsey for a full game.

Nobody else can play the pass Luiz does for the first goal, needs to be further forward

[sne]

Excellent again.

[Osirus]

Thought he played really well, he is definitely the most composed of our midfielders

[tinker]

Played very well all game but got  better when McGinn  went off and he pushed up.

[MotoMkali]

Ramsey and Luiz could be our midfield pairing for another 5 seasons easily. We should really look to build around those 2 (obviously carney could explode onto the scene same with iroegbunam). McGinn isn't a great fit with either and we should look to move him on. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by MotoMkali

[Tom13]

25 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Ramsey and McGinn could be our midfield pairing for another 5 seasons easily. We should really look to build around those 2 (obviously carney could explode onto the scene same with iroegbunam). McGinn isn't a great fit with either and we should look to move him on. 

I feel you contradict yourself a bit in this post

[avfc1982am]

27 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Ramsey and McGinn could be our midfield pairing for another 5 seasons easily. We should really look to build around those 2 (obviously carney could explode onto the scene same with iroegbunam). McGinn isn't a great fit with either and we should look to move him on. 

Someone's pissed??!!!

[KentVillan]

I love Dougie but thought he actually misplaced quite a few passes today.

Overall contribution was excellent, looked more dynamic than usual (partly the change after Nakamba came on giving him freedom to roam, but even before then he was moving about well).

But he wasn’t as inch perfect with his passing as he was against Chelsea.

Still, I think he’s going to be a key player for us this year.