Wesley Moraes

[thunderball]

25 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

A false nine was some crap made up to justify Spain and Barcelona playing without an “official” striker and having 6 midfielders on the pitch. The players starting position was in midfield and they’d run forward. Wesley doesn’t do that. He is a striker, he then drops deep to get and hold up the ball, his starting position is a striker. 

 

It’s isn’t crap, and a false 9 is a striker. But I didn’t raise the issue to get into an argument, it was a genuine enquiry on a legitimate tactic that has been used since the 1920’s

[PompeyVillan]

12 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

No because he plays on the line. A false 9 drops even deeper into central midfield to escape the line whenever possible, facing the defence. 

He's a target man. Simple as that really. 

I'm not sold on this theory, but I think he's a 9 and a half target man. I've not seen enough of him to say for sure, but I don't think he always takes up typical target man positions and likes to drop deeper and get more involved in play than a typical target man. 

I've said this before, but he reminds me a bit of Giroud at Arsenal. Powerful guy that uses his strength to drop deep and play tidy first time passes to allow his teammates into the space he creates by dragging defenders out of position. Because he's powerful I get the sense that center backs will want to follow him when he wanders to try to pressure him when he receives the ball. 

I think we've bought him because he can hold up the ball, of course, but I also think he's seen as someone that can join in and facilitate some tidy counter passing moves and counter attacks. 

We'll see, like I said, I don't think I've figured him out just yet. I'm happy to accept him as a pure target man, but I'm hoping that he's a bit special with it. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by PompeyVillan

[DJ_Villain]

If he ends up being half as good as John Carew, I’ll be happy...

[bose]

Have a feeling Big Wes will score on Saturday.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Yep, as much as I love Yorke, there's a strong argument to be made that Benteke is our greatest ever Premier League striker, an exceptional record playing for an awful Villa side.

If we can get a John Carew level of output out of Wesley then it will be very good business.

who say's that?

[TRO]

I'm looking for a lot more from him moving forward......In terms of effectiveness.

[A'Villan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

who say's that?

I certainly would. If we're talking strictly Premier League years.

Has the best goals for games ratio, and one of the higher goals tallies on offer.

He would just impose his will on games to the point he was unstoppable.

Certainly there was a point in time where if the discussion was about the best striker in the PL..

Benteke was probably third name of your tongue, only to be beaten by Van Persie and Suarez.

 

[Teale's 'tache]

Reading the last few pages, it's very interesting how differently people see his game.

I don't think we can read too much from the Spurs game, not only was it a baptism of fire for him, but I also feel he was given a pretty specific role to try and hold up the ball and not to drop too deep.

The results were mixed, in the first half he seemed to hit the deck too easily and get distracted by the decisions or lack there of going in his favour, he also started to drop deeper and deeper as the half wore on, at one point he seemed to be no more than 10 yards from his own box. Then I don't know if somebody had a word or he figured it out himself, but he got his head back in the game and seemed to contest more and hold his position more. This continued second half, again with mixed results, but the intent was at least consistent.

His main issue in that game was that he had little to no support, we couldn't get bodies close enough to him, and he was contesting every ball with 2-3 pretty big Spurs defenders, so nothing was in his favour. I'd expect against Bournemouth things will be stacked a little more his way and so we'll see a truer reflection of his abilities and also we'll hopefully see how Dean Smith intends to use him in our attacking system.

From what I've read and seen in pre-season he does like to drop deep and get involved in the play, and this is likely why his goal scoring record isn't as impressive as some, he doesn't set up camp in the danger area, but it gives the center halves marking him a decision to make and will help to create space for others. Look at the McGinn goal, although a long ball from Mings, the defender decides to follow Wesley and stays too tight getting caught under the ball, McGinn making great use of the space created behind him. This is a definite ploy, but one we couldn't use often enough at Spurs because we couldn't get runners close enough to him. 

I believe when he was at Brugge they played two up front, so our system with him being the focal point is pretty alien to him, factor in the pace of the Premier League, being in a new country etc. and it's easy to see why he struggled against Spurs, hopefully we can get more bodies in and around him against Bournemouth and see what he can do! 

[tinker]

If he can occupy a defender or 2 and allow other players to run past him, as per the goal against Spurs , then I'm happy.

It's nice to have strikers whos sole purpose is to score goals but the days of having one trick ponies , like Darren Bent are long gone.

Benteke spoilt us all as he had a bit of everything , when he was hungry. Wesley will get as many assists as he does goal but I would look to see him get into double figures .

[TRO]

17 hours ago, A'Villan said:

I certainly would. If we're talking strictly Premier League years.

Has the best goals for games ratio, and one of the higher goals tallies on offer.

He would just impose his will on games to the point he was unstoppable.

Certainly there was a point in time where if the discussion was about the best striker in the PL..

Benteke was probably third name of your tongue, only to be beaten by Van Persie and Suarez.

 

Not even in the same league as them two.

I don't agree....i find it difficult to wax too much lyrical about a striker that makes his mark at only one club.....Benteke was very good with us, but failed elsewhere, i have no idea why, but have my suspicions......but he isn't worth a bag of sweets now.

However, I can / do make a distinction, between strikers that can make their own goals and others who just rely on service......Jose Mourinho made the same comment recently, he said the very best can make their own and thats what i look for in a striker.

Dwight could do that and Brian Little could.

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

17 hours ago, thunderball said:

It’s isn’t crap, and a false 9 is a striker. But I didn’t raise the issue to get into an argument, it was a genuine enquiry on a legitimate tactic that has been used since the 1920’s

Some of these so called new ideas have been used years ago.

Its a mature game, not much is new.....just regurgitated.

[bobzy]

48 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't agree....i find it difficult to wax too much lyrical about a striker that makes his mark at only one club.....Benteke was very good with us, but failed elsewhere, i have no idea why, but have my suspicions......but he isn't worth a bag of sweets now.

However, I can / do make a distinction, between strikers that can make their own goals and others who just rely on service......Jose Mourinho made the same comment recently, he said the very best can make their own and thats what i look for in a striker.

Dwight could do that and Brian Little could.

Benteke pretty much did that for most of his goals for us.  Comfortably the best striker we've had in the league, to be honest.  Wasn't he pretty much 1 in 2 for a side that was constantly battling relegation?  Incredible stuff really.

He was utterly exceptional - I have no idea how he has managed to take the downward turn that he has.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

Benteke pretty much did that for most of his goals for us.  Comfortably the best striker we've had in the league, to be honest.  Wasn't he pretty much 1 in 2 for a side that was constantly battling relegation?  Incredible stuff really.

He was utterly exceptional - I have no idea how he has managed to take the downward turn that he has.

I do get the goals ratio, but I think everything our team did in those days was geared to Benteke or went through him......I don't subscribe to him being a type of striker Mourinho was referring or me for that matter....one that is renowned for scoring his own goals....most of the movement as i recall was weimann.

It is well documented that Klopp was at odds with his movement and told him so, but to no avail so he went.....

He had physicality when he was with us I will grant you that and his goals ratio with us was impressive.....I thought his performance when we wanted it, in the cup final v Arsenal was more or less what he is producing now......Many Strikers have had one good season or one club, blimey we have just got shut of 2.... one on Loan.

[Tom13]

17 hours ago, A'Villan said:

I certainly would. If we're talking strictly Premier League years.

Has the best goals for games ratio, and one of the higher goals tallies on offer.

He would just impose his will on games to the point he was unstoppable.

Certainly there was a point in time where if the discussion was about the best striker in the PL..

Benteke was probably third name of your tongue, only to be beaten by Van Persie and Suarez.

To be fair I've always said Yorke but Benteke is extremely close if not equal.

[Vive_La_Villa]

No way was Benteke as good as Yorke. Yorke was on another level.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

No way was Benteke as good as Yorke. Yorke was on another level.

totally and utterly agree.

[Derryvillan]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

No way was Benteke as good as Yorke. Yorke was on another level.

Absolutely.And that's from the heart.........

[tinker]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

He had physicality when he was with us I will grant you that and his goals ratio with us was impressive.....I thought his performance when we wanted it, in the cup final v Arsenal was more or less what he is producing now......Many Strikers have had one good season or one club, blimey we have just got shut of 2.... one on Loan.

If I was looking at his whole career I can see where your coming from but from a villa point of view he, to me , is untouchable. Can you name a more important striker that we have had? Yorke was good but he was in a very good team and benefitted by the players around him . Benteke was surrounded by more or less dross and single handedly kept us up for two seasons and made Sherwood look like a decent manager, an amazing achievement on its own .

[KentVillan]

Yorke clearly a better player (as his post-Villa career proved), but in that 2012-15 side surely you'd take Benteke over Yorke?

Benteke in that form was the perfect fit for a pedestrian, relegation-threatened team lacking in quality. Swap Yorke in and he would have struggled for good ball to feet, and wouldn't have been on the same wavelength as the players around him.

And that's the point with Wesley, really. Does he fit our system and our current situation? I think he does. We could have gone for a natural goalscorer, but I think the way we play and the types of teams we're going to face, do mean we need a strong all-round player who leads the line. If Wesley can chip in with around 10 goals, then with contributions from McGinn, Grealish, Hourihane, Trez, AEG, and the CBs off set pieces, we should be able to stay up.

[skarroki]

If Wesley is as good for us as Benteke was we'll be challenging for the top 4.