Wesley Moraes

[hippo]

2 hours ago, tomav84 said:

i think this is a key point. gueye, veretout and amavi were in shit teams, and looked better with better players around them. we struggled when wesley was on the pitch but since then we've added buendia, traore, watkins plus jack has developed further.

i think wesley needs a chance with those players around him before we judge. you can't judge him based on 2019/2020 season because we were a knat's pube away from going down that year. el ghaz and trez were first team regulars ffs and they're about to become 4th + 5th choice assuming the Bailey link is true

The other side of the coin though - he didn't look great against lowly Walsall - sure it's half a game - but others players shone more than Wes. 

[OLDVILLAIN]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

The other side of the coin though - he didn't look great against lowly Walsall - sure it's half a game - but others players shone more than Wes. 

I totally agree..he didnt look great last night..as brian little said last night that the beautiful cross from guilbert into the box and wesley was no where to be seen.

[DCJonah]

The Wesley thread always has a bit of a Scott Hogan vibe to it. There's always a reason why it's not Wes's fault that he was poor. 

I hope he can make it but games like last night do nothing to convince me. 

[brummybloke]

10 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

If Wesley is not going to cut it and management can see that then it's pointless and daft to risk a whole season on a player when we can and should bring better in.

I wanted Wesley to work out so much but I fear he's not going to and soon as he doesn't if that is the case he will be the bad guy on VT along with Smith and Lange. Questions will be asked as to why no suitable player was brought in to replace Wesley when we had a whole window to plan ahead.

I am almost 100 percent on Davis isn't going to work out as a premier player where we want to be. That means we're down to one back up striker before season begins in Wesley. Davis should be sold and Wesley needs to be played where possible before end of Window arrives so a decision has to be made on whether we bring another forward in or not. If we don't bring in a decent enough Backup we risk a whole season and a decent position or even qualification to europe on keeping two Backups at the club who can't put in the performances or even score, I don't think it's worth the risk.

 

 

Exactly, is it worth risking a player who didn't impress when he was fit to suddenly become the footballer we want him to be ? 

This sentimental talk was wafted around with hogan, I still wanted him to start being good even when it was clear he wasn't. I've learned to accept if they aren't good enough, no matter how much I wanted them to be good then they need to be moved on. 

We aren't a registered charity for nearly men anymore. 

Whether they are good enough to start if required or they aren't. If they aren't then loaning or selling is all that's left to reduce our financial obligations.

 

[hippo]

5 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

Exactly, is it worth risking a player who didn't impress when he was fit to suddenly become the footballer we want him to be ? 

This sentimental talk was wafted around with hogan, I still wanted him to start being good even when it was clear he wasn't. I've learned to accept if they aren't good enough, no matter how much I wanted them to be good then they need to be moved on. 

We aren't a registered charity for nearly men anymore. 

Whether they are good enough to start if required or they aren't. If they aren't then loaning or selling is all that's left to reduce our financial obligations.

 

There's the odd exception of course - but the prem is such a tough league, that in general if there is a debate about if a player is good enough - more often than not he isn't.

[brummybloke]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

There's the odd exception of course - but the prem is such a tough league, that in general if there is a debate about if a player is good enough - more often than not he isn't.

Exactly, targett was good in 50% of games his first season but stepped up to 90% the next year, and that was with various injuries his first season.but playing well in half the games showed there was a good player for Premier league in there.

Wes had around a 15 % played good ratio, basically 2 1/2 games he played well in.

Would everyone like him to become the next fat Ronaldo goal scoring and general play wise ? Of course we all would, are there any signs he will ? 

 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Not really. It was a poor first touch. He should have been through and scoring himself. He did the the thing after that with the pass but the initial touch was awful. 

Wesley ran through and took the ball with the outside of his right foot away from the defender. You seem to think was a mistake fine; i'll prefer to think of it positively. If it was a poor first touch it might have been intercepted or ran away from him.

However he still weighted the ball perfectly for Philogene-Bidace.

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Wesley ran through and took the ball with the outside of his right foot away from the defender. You seem to think was a mistake fine; i'll prefer to think of it positively. If it was a poor first touch it might have been intercepted or ran away from him.

However he still weighted the ball perfectly for Philogene-Bidace.

It was a good pass. Excellent awareness and he put him through. But that was not a good touch. No good striker gets played through the defence and decides to control the ball backwards or sideways. He tried to take it in his stride but messed it up. 

That ball gets played to Watkins and its a goal for him. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by DCJonah

[Dave-R]

1 minute ago, brummybloke said:

Exactly, is it worth risking a player who didn't impress when he was fit to suddenly become the footballer we want him to be ? 

This sentimental talk was wafted around with hogan, I still wanted him to start being good even when it was clear he wasn't. I've learned to accept if they aren't good enough, no matter how much I wanted them to be good then they need to be moved on. 

We aren't a registered charity for nearly men anymore. 

Whether they are good enough to start if required or they aren't. If they aren't then loaning or selling is all that's left to reduce our financial obligations.

 

I was and am a fan of Wesley since he arrived at Villa but we have to be realistic here we need better back ups.

It's not about our love for a player it's about business and a players ability to make it count where it's needed. Did you hear (Brian Little) and how he stated over and over that now is the time during these friendlies for players to show the chiefs something. Brian was very vocal over players like Watkins, Buendia, Chuk, Ramsey, Cash, Ashley and more but not Wesley and Davis. If players can't show signs of life during friendly against opponents we should be comfortably be winning then it's a cause for concern. Look at Buendia, been here for all of 5 minutes, played one half and he was all over the place, now that lad has a massive future at Villa. Ashley, hasn't been back long, plays an half and manages to put in a decent half with his experience. You could easy see the ones that are going to be playing first eleven football and the ones that are going to struggle getting out of the fringe squad.

Davis is another like Wesley where since before our arrival back in premier Davis hasn't been much of a player but in very small doses. After seeing both of them last night in action they looked absolutely flat and uninspiring.  To me they are not the players you want or need at Villa because they are not teaching the youth for one anything apart from a lesson of not to play like they are. See Watkins is an ace role model for youth but Davis and Wesley they may be ace people but are not good at that level of football.

isn't Wesley one of Jesus Pitarch's signings? He wasn't worth 20 million and if we sell him wed be lucky to get half that back, maybe even a quarter but I'd sooner make the moves now, sell Wesley and Davis and put that money into bringing another capable striker in.

you can even bring one of Barry or Brad Young in as third forward if we get rid of Davis and go buy a capable striker. Heck at this rate if we're going to go with Wesley and Davis for Backups were an Injury to Watkins away from a screwed up season. If were not to move for any other forward and go with that pair, then I'd rather we sell Wesley and Davis and bring Barry and Brad Young in as second and third for the coming season.

we have options and choices we can make but I see Wesley and Davis as our back ups as a major problem and it needs sorting before window is over.

 

[The Rosk]

6 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

Exactly, targett was good in 50% of games his first season but stepped up to 90% the next year, and that was with various injuries his first season.but playing well in half the games showed there was a good player for Premier league in there.

Wes had around a 15 % played good ratio, basically 2 1/2 games he played well in.

Would everyone like him to become the next fat Ronaldo goal scoring and general play wise ? Of course we all would, are there any signs he will ? 

 

go by stats alone

In a relegation-scrapping, brand new team put together with one month's notice, Wesley got 6 in 22 - scoring ratio of 27.3%

In a better, more established team, Watkins got 14 in 37 - scoring ratio of 37.8%

 

We see Watkins as a demi-god on here, but is that really such a huge difference in output when you consider the difference between the two sides they were in?   

 

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

39 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

 

We aren't a registered charity for nearly men anymore. 

 

 

We're going to have to tell the Charity Commission:

 

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/5039247/what-who-how-where

 

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I was and am a fan of Wesley since he arrived at Villa but we have to be realistic here we need better back ups.

It's not about our love for a player it's about business and a players ability to make it count where it's needed. Did you hear (Brian Little) and how he stated over and over that now is the time during these friendlies for players to show the chiefs something. Brian was very vocal over players like Watkins, Buendia, Chuk, Ramsey, Cash, Ashley and more but not Wesley and Davis. If players can't show signs of life during friendly against opponents we should be comfortably be winning then it's a cause for concern. Look at Buendia, been here for all of 5 minutes, played one half and he was all over the place, now that lad has a massive future at Villa. Ashley, hasn't been back long, plays an half and manages to put in a decent half with his experience. You could easy see the ones that are going to be playing first eleven football and the ones that are going to struggle getting out of the fringe squad.

Davis is another like Wesley where since before our arrival back in premier Davis hasn't been much of a player but in very small doses. After seeing both of them last night in action they looked absolutely flat and uninspiring.  To me they are not the players you want or need at Villa because they are not teaching the youth for one anything apart from a lesson of not to play like they are. See Watkins is an ace role model for youth but Davis and Wesley they may be ace people but are not good at that level of football.

isn't Wesley one of Jesus Pitarch's signings? He wasn't worth 20 million and if we sell him wed be lucky to get half that back, maybe even a quarter but I'd sooner make the moves now, sell Wesley and Davis and put that money into bringing another capable striker in.

you can even bring one of Barry or Brad Young in as third forward if we get rid of Davis and go buy a capable striker. Heck at this rate if we're going to go with Wesley and Davis for Backups were an Injury to Watkins away from a screwed up season. If were not to move for any other forward and go with that pair, then I'd rather we sell Wesley and Davis and bring Barry and Brad Young in as second and third for the coming season.

we have options and choices we can make but I see Wesley and Davis as our back ups as a major problem and it needs sorting before window is over.

 

I think Wes and/or Davis maybe options to come of the bench for the last 20 minutes or so. But (Heaven forbid) if Watkins got a long term injury neither would good enough to step in. We do have other options:-

Traore and AEG - I beleive on occasions have played CF

Brad Young and Louie Barry from the u23's 

 

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, The Rosk said:

go by stats alone

In a relegation-scrapping, brand new team put together with one month's notice, Wesley got 6 in 22 - scoring ratio of 27.3%

In a better, more established team, Watkins got 14 in 37 - scoring ratio of 37.8%

 

We see Watkins as a demi-god on here, but is that really such a huge difference in output when you consider the difference between the two sides they were in?   

 

Wes is a massive downgrade on Watkins - whatever the stats may say.

 

[DCJonah]

23 minutes ago, The Rosk said:

go by stats alone

In a relegation-scrapping, brand new team put together with one month's notice, Wesley got 6 in 22 - scoring ratio of 27.3%

In a better, more established team, Watkins got 14 in 37 - scoring ratio of 37.8%

 

We see Watkins as a demi-god on here, but is that really such a huge difference in output when you consider the difference between the two sides they were in?   

 

Yes. 

Wes scored in 5 games. He went 12 games without scoring a goal and 4 consecutive games without a shot on target. 

Watkins, even when he doesn't score, causes defenders issues and is still a useful weapon. And also without VAR probably scores 20 league goals. 

I'm amazed people could think there isn't much of a difference between the two players. 

[Delphinho123]

He needs a loan more than Davis does. 

[Delphinho123]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Yes. 

Wes scored in 5 games. He went 12 games without scoring a goal and 4 consecutive games without a shot on target. 

Watkins, even when he doesn't score, causes defenders issues and is still a useful weapon. And also without VAR probably scores 20 league goals. 

I'm amazed people could think there isn't much of a difference between the two players. 

It's night and day. 
There isn't a single attribute to Wesley's game that is better than Watkins'. Olli is quicker, stronger on the ball, better in the air, better crosser, better passer, better dribbler etc. etc.

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, Dave-R said:

I wanted Wesley to work out so much but I fear he's not going to and soon as he doesn't if that is the case he will be the bad guy on VT along with Smith and Lange

On the other hand we could be 4-0 up in the Champions League final and SOMEONE would be the bad guy on VT so only so much that can factor into their planning

[The Fun Factory]

28 minutes ago, hippo said:

Wes is a massive downgrade on Watkins - whatever the stats may say.

 

Completely different  type of player.

Whether he is/has ever been the right fit for Smith's tactics is another argument.

[Stevo985]

I actually thought Wesley was fine for us when he played. He's no Ollie Watkins but I think he'll be good enough to be a stand in this season

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

The Wesley thread always has a bit of a Scott Hogan vibe to it. There's always a reason why it's not Wes's fault that he was poor. 

I hope he can make it but games like last night do nothing to convince me. 

what's wrong with giving the benefit of the doubt for as long as possible? OK hogan didn't work out but i guarantee if i go back to early pages of the matty targett thread that also probably had a 'scott hogan' vibe to it