Wesley Moraes

[rodders0223]

8 hours ago, smg said:

Sell him, not good enough, never was even before a near career ending injury, then watch him develop into a top class player signing for a top European or premier league team. I believe Spurs are about to sign a shit ex goalkeeper of ours, and let’s not forget Gueye, Veretout and Amavi who were not up to it. Apparently.

Nobody is going to pay a player that ruptured his knee one of the worst examples going and hasn't kicked a ball in anger for more than £3m. 

He needs to go out and prove himself and get back to a level if he can. 

Then sell him to a Dutch or Portugese team because yes he is never going to be good enough.

[desensitized43]

2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Needs a loan needs games and club needs to assess what kind of footballer he is nowadays.

He won't get that sitting on our bench and Watkins playing 38 games a season.

We need to go in the market for a stop gap striker and let these 2 go out on loan.

Wes wasn't sharp enough before the injury. He won't be now. And he won't get sharp with out rigid 451 and Davis getting about 8 minutes on average last year.

I would think that if we sign another striker he will definitely go on loan. I know it was rumoured Wes would be loaned to the dutch or Belgian league. I would try and get him a loan to an English club if possible, even if it's a championship one. If he's determined he wants to make it in England he needs to adapt to our game. I don't think even before his injury he had done that yet.

Of course that's dependent on where he sees his future. I'm sure he could go to a Bruge etc and have a fine career.

[villalad21]

57 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

The drop off in quality is huge  

It is.

But Wesley was always a quantity signing and he looks like a quantity signing.

Don't think you can expect him to set the Premier League alight when he didn't set the Belgian League alight.

[villalad21]

11 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Needs a loan needs games and club needs to assess what kind of footballer he is nowadays.

He won't get that sitting on our bench and Watkins playing 38 games a season.

We need to go in the market for a stop gap striker and let these 2 go out on loan.

Wes wasn't sharp enough before the injury. He won't be now. And he won't get sharp with out rigid 451 and Davis getting about 8 minutes on average last year.

I think Wes will give it a try this season and fight for his place but he will very quickly realize he's got no future here. Not as long as Watkins is here.

If he want to play regular football he will have to move on.

[ozvillafan]

Just seen the highlights. Got an assist for Goal #3, no?

[TheMelvillan]

Would love to see him using his raw strength a bit more to his advantage. Needs to become a bit more of a bully. Looks at the likes of hartson, shearer or Sutton. They were physical bullies on the pitch and it paid dividends. 

Wes hasn't got the greatest levels of skill or speed but he does have physical strength in spades which could occupy defenders who would hate to play against it. He's just a bit too timid and nice for my liking.

I also never want to see a front two of Davis and Wes again - not great lol

[Zhan_Zhuang]

7 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Just seen the highlights. Got an assist for Goal #3, no?

He did indeed, nice hold-up and pass inch-perfect to Philogene-Bidace.

I echo the sentiment of an earlier poster, Wesley started the second-half well and then the whole team dropped  off later in the half.

Hopefully the players can improve throughout the pre-season games.

[tomav84]

9 hours ago, smg said:

Sell him, not good enough, never was even before a near career ending injury, then watch him develop into a top class player signing for a top European or premier league team. I believe Spurs are about to sign a shit ex goalkeeper of ours, and let’s not forget Gueye, Veretout and Amavi who were not up to it. Apparently.

i think this is a key point. gueye, veretout and amavi were in shit teams, and looked better with better players around them. we struggled when wesley was on the pitch but since then we've added buendia, traore, watkins plus jack has developed further.

i think wesley needs a chance with those players around him before we judge. you can't judge him based on 2019/2020 season because we were a knat's pube away from going down that year. el ghaz and trez were first team regulars ffs and they're about to become 4th + 5th choice assuming the Bailey link is true

[villaglint]

I think the biggest trouble with Wesley is that he is going to need a run of regular games to get his fitness and match sharpness back and other than the odd half in pre season is he going to get those games with us? No - so we're going to have a sub who is scratching around for fitness and form like Barkley last year. 

We're between a rock and hard place with him really given the money already invested. 

[villalad21]

32 minutes ago, TheMelvillan said:

I also never want to see a front two of Davis and Wes again - not great lol

I don't want to see a front 2 period

[the_eristic]

53 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

Just seen the highlights. Got an assist for Goal #3, no?

Also linked up with JPB at the top of the box for the pre-assist on #4. That slightly deeper interplay is something that seems to come naturally to him, which could be extremely effective with Ollie, Jack and co running off him in the right games.

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

1 hour ago, TheMelvillan said:

Would love to see him using his raw strength a bit more to his advantage. Needs to become a bit more of a bully. Looks at the likes of hartson, shearer or Sutton. They were physical bullies on the pitch and it paid dividends. 

Wes hasn't got the greatest levels of skill or speed but he does have physical strength in spades which could occupy defenders who would hate to play against it. He's just a bit too timid and nice for my liking.

 

I thought this last night, too. He needs to be a bit more canny and less innocent. I remember that prior to his injury, he would be too easily knocked off the ball and then wave his arms about. He needs to use that physical strength. If I was a defender, I should be terrified of this guy: instead, I can have a nibble on him in the first minute and realise he's a power puff. 

The irony here is that he doesn't match the technical abilities of our other signings since Dean's arrival, but he could be a bit of a throwback if he used his skills properly. There is still a place for this sort of player in modern football. 

Unfortunately, he had these problems before his injury. Now, he needs to overcome the mental aspects of that injury and enhance his game. This is going to be v difficult, indeed. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by KevinRichardsonsMoustache

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

i think this is a key point. gueye, veretout and amavi were in shit teams, and looked better with better players around them. we struggled when wesley was on the pitch but since then we've added buendia, traore, watkins plus jack has developed further.

i think wesley needs a chance with those players around him before we judge. you can't judge him based on 2019/2020 season because we were a knat's pube away from going down that year. el ghaz and trez were first team regulars ffs and they're about to become 4th + 5th choice assuming the Bailey link is true

Gueye and Veretout played in a completely dysfunctional team though, and under inept managers.

And despite all that they did show promise. I've never seen any signs of Wesley becoming a player.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

He did indeed, nice hold-up and pass inch-perfect to Philogene-Bidace.

I echo the sentiment of an earlier poster, Wesley started the second-half well and then the whole team dropped  off later in the half.

Hopefully the players can improve throughout the pre-season games.

Not really. It was a poor first touch. He should have been through and scoring himself. He did the the thing after that with the pass but the initial touch was awful. 

[tomav84]

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Gueye and Veretout played in a completely dysfunctional team though, and under inept managers.

And despite all that they did show promise. I've never seen any signs of Wesley becoming a player.

according to you smith was/is inept though!

wesley has shown promise too. everton, norwich, burnley in particular were good games of his

[villalad21]

5 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

according to you smith was/is inept though!

wesley has shown promise too. everton, norwich, burnley in particular were good games of his

I'm not talking about individual games. There's a phrase called "Form is temporary, class is permanent" that's more what I am getting at.

With Veretout and Gueye even if they didn't have the best of games i could still see there were good players in there. I got the same feeling when i saw Luiz.

Never got that feeling watching Wesley. Just my opinion

Edited July 22, 2021 by villalad21

[Sam-AVFC]

It's almost like some people have sat on their hands waiting for Wesley to get on a pitch long enough to be able to go back to slating him daily. 45 minutes in our first pre-season game? Eh, it's a good enough excuse.

I can understand doubts over his ability, but it baffles me that people aren't willing to see how he plays when he gets chances this year before deciding he will never be a decent footballer. 

[Sam-AVFC]

5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I'm not talking about individual games. There's a phrase called "Form is temporary, class is permanent" that's more what I am getting at.

With Veretout and Gueye even if they didn't have the best of games i could still see there were good players in there. I got the same feeling when i saw Luiz.

Never got that feeling watching Wesley. Just my opinion

Based on your example, I'm not entirely sure you understand that phrase.

[The Rosk]

It's highly unfair to write Wes off.  Everyone bar Jack was pants that season and he barely got any chances.  It's a shame he got clattered in the Burnley game as it was IMO his best performance outside of Everton/Norwich - linked up play well and looked a lot more confident.  He's still a few years from his prime and his attitude from what we've seen to get back on course after such a devastating injury is a sign of a player who won't be content with just sitting on his ar5e.  

His style is also different to Watkins so it's good that we have a few different strikers (albeit of different attributes - Keinan the battering ram as the third).  I can see confidence playing a massive part in his football.  

 

If you look at the transfers we made around that time and it's clear the mindset, in retrospect, wasn't as bad as we first thought:

Targett, Mings, Konsa, Luiz - all now first teamers and we love them

Nakamba, Hause, Trez, AEG - all valuable squad players

Engels, Jota - gone

 

That's an 80% success rate of the purchases.  Wesley was the one we paid the most for, and the only one who has had an injury that's killed any momentum to be part of the growth of this side.  I also feel that if he knocked in the penalty to get a hat trick vs Norwich then we'd be looking at things differently too - what wonders that would have done for him.

[Dave-R]

1 minute ago, The Rosk said:

It's highly unfair to write Wes off.  Everyone bar Jack was pants that season and he barely got any chances.  It's a shame he got clattered in the Burnley game as it was IMO his best performance outside of Everton/Norwich - linked up play well and looked a lot more confident.  He's still a few years from his prime and his attitude from what we've seen to get back on course after such a devastating injury is a sign of a player who won't be content with just sitting on his ar5e.  

His style is also different to Watkins so it's good that we have a few different strikers (albeit of different attributes - Keinan the battering ram as the third).  I can see confidence playing a massive part in his football.  

 

If you look at the transfers we made around that time and it's clear the mindset, in retrospect, wasn't as bad as we first thought:

Targett, Mings, Konsa, Luiz - all now first teamers and we love them

Nakamba, Hause, Trez, AEG - all valuable squad players

Engels, Jota - gone

 

That's an 80% success rate of the purchases.  Wesley was the one we paid the most for, and the only one who has had an injury that's killed any momentum to be part of the growth of this side.  I also feel that if he knocked in the penalty to get a hat trick vs Norwich then we'd be looking at things differently too - what wonders that would have done for him.

If Wesley is not going to cut it and management can see that then it's pointless and daft to risk a whole season on a player when we can and should bring better in.

I wanted Wesley to work out so much but I fear he's not going to and soon as he doesn't if that is the case he will be the bad guy on VT along with Smith and Lange. Questions will be asked as to why no suitable player was brought in to replace Wesley when we had a whole window to plan ahead.

I am almost 100 percent on Davis isn't going to work out as a premier player where we want to be. That means we're down to one back up striker before season begins in Wesley. Davis should be sold and Wesley needs to be played where possible before end of Window arrives so a decision has to be made on whether we bring another forward in or not. If we don't bring in a decent enough Backup we risk a whole season and a decent position or even qualification to europe on keeping two Backups at the club who can't put in the performances or even score, I don't think it's worth the risk.