Racism Part two

[a m ole]

14 minutes ago, 3_Penny_Opera said:

I do have a question.

I am a partner of a Cuban Bar and Restaurant and have always had an aversion to the drink name, Mulata/Mulato Daiquiri.  I understand it is a classic, et al, I just personally don't enjoy the name.

Well another partner wants to add it to our menu and I am having trouble working up talking to him about how I dont want the name Mulata on a menu that I have something to do with.  Also, I'm half black and half white and hate the name mulatto.

Curious what your lot think.

Feels like one of those words that was originally descriptive in Latin languages that became a pejorative. If you’re not comfortable with it, let your partner know and come up with a different name for the same cocktail, maybe just based on the name of your bar. That way, it’s a still a classic you just don’t call it that. You’re still serving the drink, and if people ask for one you’re still serving it.

[3_Penny_Opera]

8 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I have to be honest, I've never heard the word mulatto before. Is that a word used a lot in America?

It isn't used a lot, no.  It's an afterthought really, and dated.  Obviously stemming from Mule and derogatory term for mixed race (specifically black and another race).

[3_Penny_Opera]

2 minutes ago, a m ole said:

Feels like one of those words that was originally descriptive in Latin languages that became a pejorative. If you’re not comfortable with it, let your partner know and come up with a different name for the same cocktail, maybe just based on the name of your bar. That way, it’s a still a classic you just don’t call it that. You’re still serving the drink, and if people ask for one you’re still serving it.

Youre right.

And we did already change the name to Jazz Daiquiri once (it's on the menu now).  Because the history of the cocktail was slightly tactless by adding creme de cacao(chocolate) to the daiquiri to emulate black jazz musicians.

[Follyfoot]

2 minutes ago, 3_Penny_Opera said:

Youre right.

And we did already change the name to Jazz Daiquiri once (it's on the menu now).  Because the history of the cocktail was slightly tactless by adding creme de cacao(chocolate) to the daiquiri to emulate black jazz musicians.

not sure I can answer you question but don't half fancy trying one

[tonyh29]

27 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

On the other hand, back then a shop assistant could easily buy a house.

As others have said, different generations, different problems.

A shop assistant back then probably hadn't blown a years' salary on an armful of tattoos , the latest iPhone ,  4 pairs of white trainers and spent the change on hippy crack though

we've touched  on this topic before as part of another thread  , ultimately people will come down on the side of their age group   .. could be an interesting thread in its own right though 

Edited March 15, 2021 by tonyh29

[bickster]

34 minutes ago, 3_Penny_Opera said:

Youre right.

And we did already change the name to Jazz Daiquiri once (it's on the menu now).  Because the history of the cocktail was slightly tactless by adding creme de cacao(chocolate) to the daiquiri to emulate black jazz musicians.

Just call it a chocolate daiquiri then

[blandy]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

I don't think the younger generation's lack of happiness is anything to do with possessions.

More to do with crippling expectations put on them with a ridiculously connected world, and often no future to look forward, be it through climate change, lack of jobs, housing prices.

When I was a kid, I remember kids being mocked for having cheap shoes at school; imagine that x100000 with social media, influencers, more wealth inequality.

I wouldn't want to be a teenager now, even with all of the stuff they've apparently got.

Are they unhappy? generally, I mean? or are they reflecting the interconnection you mention - just "communicating" their state of mind in a way which previous gen's weren't able to, as the interweb hadn't been discovered.

Expectations and fears are universal - it used to be Mutually Assured Destruction and Nuclear war, now it's Climate change. Wealth inequality may have widened, but then again, far more are in real terms better off.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there's maybe more to it.

I'd be a teenager again.

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, 3_Penny_Opera said:

I do have a question.

I am a partner of a Cuban Bar and Restaurant and have always had an aversion to the drink name, Mulata/Mulato Daiquiri.  I understand it is a classic, et al, I just personally don't enjoy the name.

Well another partner wants to add it to our menu and I am having trouble working up talking to him about how I dont want the name Mulata on a menu that I have something to do with.  Also, I'm half black and half white and hate the name mulatto.

Curious what your lot think.

If you’re uncomfortable with it, you should say something.

At the very least, it raises the discussion that it could potentially be offensive to some customers. is it really worth the risk of the sudden social media storm when someone takes exception to it, and you know you had a chance to say something but stayed quiet?

At the very least, you’re covered AND you’ll have a deeper understanding of how your partners thoughts go on these things.

[Keyblade]

5 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I don’t get the hate on @Follyfoot’s post.

We live in an ‘everything now’ culture, kids growing up know nothing but next day delivery (or even same day), entire TV series’ being available all at once, music and media on demand, sport highlights available in real time.

No idea why people feel the need to round on it other than it being a good opportunity to appear ‘woke’.

With the continuous advancements in technology that makes things more convenient for us dating back to possibly the dawn of the industrial revolution, this is a criticism that every generation since then could (and have) levy at the younger generations. It's the exact thing @StefanAVFC was talking about.

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

 

I'd be a teenager again.

I'd be a teenager again as well but given the choice I'd be a teenager when I was, late 80's/early 90's, rather than be a teenager now. I wouldn't swap my time growing up with either of my daughters, age 22 and 14, and I have been fortunate enough to be able to give them more than my parents were able to give me and do way more with them than my parents could with me in terms of taking them on holidays etc. 

I think the simple reason for that is social media. It is the devils work in terms of teenagers/young adults feeling the pressure to look their best at all times or the need to feel like you have to make out you have a perfect life and the fact that you feel you can't escape people being able to contact you when you leave school or come home after meeting up with a group of friends. 

Another reason I feel for young adults now is due to what others have mentioned and the housing situation. I purchased my first house in 1998 when I was 23. It cost 35k and my mortgage cost me £180 a month. That same house now is worth approx. 210k. Back in 1998 I was earning around 16k a year. That same job now I think pays around 24k. A 50% increase in the wage of the job I was doing 23 years ago but a 600% increase in the cost of the first house I purchased at that time. I'd imagine that is quite common.

[osmark86]

1 minute ago, markavfc40 said:

I'd be a teenager again as well but given the choice I'd be a teenager when I was, late 80's/early 90's, rather than be a teenager now. I wouldn't swap my time growing up with either of my daughters, age 22 and 14, and I have been fortunate enough to be able to give them more than my parents were able to give me and do way more with them than my parents could with me in terms of taking them on holidays etc. 

I think the simple reason for that is social media. It is the devils work in terms of teenagers/young adults feeling the pressure to look their best at all times or the need to feel like you have to make out you have a perfect life and the fact that you feel you can't escape people being able to contact you when you leave school or come home after meeting up with a group of friends. 

Another reason I feel for young adults now is due to what others have mentioned and the housing situation. I purchased my first house in 1998 when I was 23. It cost 35k and my mortgage cost me £180 a month. That same house now is worth approx. 210k. Back in 1998 I was earning around 16k a year. That same job now I think pays around 24k. A 50% increase in the wage of the job I was doing 23 years ago but a 600% increase in the cost of the first house I purchased at that time. I'd imagine that is quite common.

Now if only more people could see this for what it is instead of calling our younger generations "lazy" that would be great. You nailed it mark.

[Keyblade]

8 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I'd be a teenager again as well but given the choice I'd be a teenager when I was, late 80's/early 90's, rather than be a teenager now. I wouldn't swap my time growing up with either of my daughters, age 22 and 14, and I have been fortunate enough to be able to give them more than my parents were able to give me and do way more with them than my parents could with me in terms of taking them on holidays etc. 

I think the simple reason for that is social media. It is the devils work in terms of teenagers/young adults feeling the pressure to look their best at all times or the need to feel like you have to make out you have a perfect life and the fact that you feel you can't escape people being able to contact you when you leave school or come home after meeting up with a group of friends. 

Another reason I feel for young adults now is due to what others have mentioned and the housing situation. I purchased my first house in 1998 when I was 23. It cost 35k and my mortgage cost me £180 a month. That same house now is worth approx. 210k. Back in 1998 I was earning around 16k a year. That same job now I think pays around 24k. A 50% increase in the wage of the job I was doing 23 years ago but a 600% increase in the cost of the first house I purchased at that time. I'd imagine that is quite common.

I wonder if you take inflation into account if it even is a wage increase. I would guess it's exactly the same as it was 23 years ago. Wages have been stagnant since about the 70's and cost of living has been steadily rising all the while.

[NurembergVillan]

2 hours ago, 3_Penny_Opera said:

I do have a question.

I am a partner of a Cuban Bar and Restaurant and have always had an aversion to the drink name, Mulata/Mulato Daiquiri.  I understand it is a classic, et al, I just personally don't enjoy the name.

Well another partner wants to add it to our menu and I am having trouble working up talking to him about how I dont want the name Mulata on a menu that I have something to do with.  Also, I'm half black and half white and hate the name mulatto.

Curious what your lot think.

Call it a Maltese Falcon, after the first film noir.

[GarethRDR]

2 hours ago, 3_Penny_Opera said:

I do have a question.

I am a partner of a Cuban Bar and Restaurant and have always had an aversion to the drink name, Mulata/Mulato Daiquiri.  I understand it is a classic, et al, I just personally don't enjoy the name.

Well another partner wants to add it to our menu and I am having trouble working up talking to him about how I dont want the name Mulata on a menu that I have something to do with.  Also, I'm half black and half white and hate the name mulatto.

Curious what your lot think.

Have you considered alternative names like Albino? Mosquito? Libido?

[chrisp65]

I recently re watched Quadrophenia, for my sins. 

There’s a passage in that where the feckless modern youth is criticised by the older generation. That feckless youth would now be about 80 years old.

One of fave books is Absolute Beginners, set in the mid 1950’s, same.

I’d be fairly confident it’ll be a theme in some Charles Dickens novel too.

It’s a trap of old age to project this ‘not like in my day’ mentality, usually whilst pulling up some ladder or other.

[Seat68]

Perhaps one for the mods to move to a different thread. 

[tonyh29]

46 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I'd be a teenager again as well but given the choice I'd be a teenager when I was, late 80's/early 90's, rather than be a teenager now.

Too right ,  .. When i was 16 (1986)  I'd been on 3 lads holidays and was pissed just about every Fri and Sat night  ..back then ID was the ability to say " A pint of lager please my good man" without your voice squeaking , now , even if a 16-year-old could afford a pint , he'd have to be subjected to a Voight-Kampff test before he's allowed to buy.

Edited March 15, 2021 by tonyh29

[Follyfoot]

3 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

Your first post which generated a lot of responses isn't really the same as what you have written in the second post which is probably why a lot of people decided to dismiss it.

With regards to your new rewording I still don't think its a great comparison to be making. The world as a whole is completely different. There are far more things readily available to kids and there is far more pressure given social media etc. for kids to have the latest thing. 

Even 15 - 20 years ago the world was a completely different place. I remember saving money up or waiting for a birthday or christmas to get the things that I wanted. The trouble now is that everything is so fleeting in popularity that kids will get through a lot more things than I would have done growing up.

The biggest indicator of this is in video gaming to be fair. Things like skin packs and season passes weren't a thing when I was growing up. Gaming companies adding these to take advantage of kids wanting to have the latest thing is part of the problem.

I think your overall point is a reasonable one. To blame it on the kids and say that they have "no sense of achievement in saving" and that its "vulgar" is ignoring the circumstances around why it might be how it is.

You get me wrong, I am not blaming the kids, its more a slight on society in general, the fact remains that many, not all, but a large number from what I experience (unless the parents are lying) of this teenage generation are in for one hell of a culture shock when they have to fend for themselves and find they can not get everything they want unless they get in a debt spiral or worse turn to crime. I also agree the things attached to the gaming industry are the Devil and create the must have today culture. In response to @bannedfromHandV comment, yes we do live in a culture when everything is now but the point is I can afford to live and pay in this culture, many of the kids so accustomed to this now simply will not be able to and then as stated we could have a big problem.

Another concern, and I have noticed this as the kids have got older through Youth Club is that their social skills and attention spans get worse as they get older (we have them from 5 until 17) . They would rather sit on their phones than get involved in any real person the person interaction or if you can coax them out of their shells they soon loose interest. Even after COVID we are thinking of closing club (that has been open for 83 years) due the above and dwindling numbers. For example one lad who is 14 went out with this girl for the best part of six months, they had one romantic 'date' at Greggs and proceeded to see out the rest of the relationship via mobile phone posting happy family and kissing emojis to each other before it enviably fizzled out. How are these young adults going to make to the transition into the workplace given the above. Given all of the above I do think it is a vulgar situation but obviously not of their making and valuable life lessons would be learned from saving for something they want, not all the time but once in a while would surely help into the journey of adulthood and responsibility

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Follyfoot

[Xela]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

On the other hand, back then a shop assistant could easily buy a house.

As others have said, different generations, different problems.

Could they? Easily I mean. 

My folks purchased their flat in Erdington for £4400 in 1974. Dad's salary as a PC was about £1200 a year then. They couldn't have afforded a three bed house. My Dad had old cars (Fords/Vauxhalls) until he was in his 50's and his first trip out of the country was when he was nearly 40. 

I wouldn't have swapped places with my parents in terms of being young. Then again I wouldn't swap places with teenagers now. I think me hitting 18 in 1997 was probably the sweet spot. 

I do agree that house prices have got out of control now and the disparity between wages and house prices is just getting wider. I wouldn't want to be starting out now as a new starter into the working world. I was probably part of the generation that could get away with not having any qualifications and still ending up with a decent job. 

 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

On the other hand, back then a shop assistant could easily buy a house.

As others have said, different generations, different problems.

If they had a job - I mean unemployment was rife in the Thatcher years, for example. Then there was negative equity - people who bought houses finding as interest rates rose they couldn't afford the payments, and because interest rates had risen house prices slumped, so even if they sold, they'd still owe tons of money.

Every generation, as you say faces different problems, and those we (anyone) faced in the past seem to fade in terms of recollection of the impact they had, in favour of current (and very real) problems currently being experienced. As this is the racism thread, it's worth pointing out that racism was far more open and common 30 - 40+ years ago - you only have to look at 70s TV to see that. And that's without witnessing it being done to people in real life, which was pretty much a daily occurrence in one guise or another.