Racism Part two

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

We live in an ‘everything now’ culture, kids growing up know nothing but next day delivery (or even same day), entire TV series’ being available all at once, music and media on demand, sport highlights available in real time.

Because that is not what he said. Read the post again. He stated how it's vulgar that kids these days have no concept of saving up for things. Nothing is mentioned about on-demand TV or anything you've mentioned.

Woke? Give a **** break. it's just the ultimate copout.

Calling out an absurd and insulting generalisation for what it was, bollocks, is not woke.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by StefanAVFC

[Designer1]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I don’t get the hate on @Follyfoot’s post.

We live in an ‘everything now’ culture, kids growing up know nothing but next day delivery (or even same day), entire TV series’ being available all at once, music and media on demand, sport highlights available in real time.

No idea why people feel the need to round on it other than it being a good opportunity to appear ‘woke’.

I think it was more the generalisation than anything else. There will obviously be kids who fit into his original description, that's just the law of averages but to paint the whole demographic with the same brush is pretty narrow minded.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Designer1 said:

I think it was more the generalisation than anything else. There will obviously be kids who fit into his original description, that's just the law of averages but to paint the whole demographic with the same brush is pretty narrow minded.

Also stunning lack of self-awareness that from his own situation, this mentality that he's complaining about comes from the parenting, not from the generation considering his kids understand the value of money. 

[a m ole]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Also stunning lack of self-awareness that from his own situation, this mentality that he's complaining about comes from the parenting, not from the generation considering his kids understand the value of money. 

[villa4europe]

3 hours ago, bickster said:

That would make you as intollerant of other peoples opinions as ISIS

Not sure what is so disgusting anyway, it equates the Royal Family with a racist police. The analogy stands up. Markle feels like she had no freedom within the Royal Family, hence the can't breath because the queen is pressing on her neck.

my only issue with it is that it depicts the queen which maybe isn't fair and then it also depicts her as an evil old woman with hairy legs etc which is uncalled for and sparks the reaction that they want

but the idea of the cartoon is sound even if it is "shocking", its how else you embody the firm / the palace / the royal family and what is most important the UK media that's the problem with it, how do you draw the daily mail with their knee on her neck?

[KenjiOgiwara]

20 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

On this point, I don't think the younger generation's lack of happiness is anything to do with possessions.

More to do with crippling expectations put on them with a ridiculously connected world, and often no future to look forward, be it through climate change, lack of jobs, housing prices.

When I was a kid, I remember kids being mocked for having cheap shoes at school; imagine that x100000 with social media, influencers, more wealth inequality.

I wouldn't want to be a teenager now, even with all of the stuff they've apparently got. 

Yep. Both me and my GF are terrified of the prospects of how social media will act towards our future kids.

As for possession and differences between then and now. We're in a possession economy aren't we? Firstly products aren't of the same quality they once were. It's very much buy, throw, replace. Being able to have the newest products have become important in everything from sports, education, careers and social life/dating.  Guess it's a reason why circular economy became the newest academical fad.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[magnkarl]

6 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Yep. Both me and my GF are terrified of the prospects of how social media will act towards our future kids.

As for possession and differences between then and now. We're in a possession economy aren't we? Firstly products aren't of the same quality they once were. It's very much buy, throw, replace. Being able to have the newest products have become important in everything from sports, education, careers and social life/dating.  Guess it's a reason why circular economy became the newest academical fad.

 

 

This point is true to some extent, but behavioural psychologists have a slight different take on it. You can have a several types of spending habits, some people are scarcity oriented and like to save, some people are quantity oriented and like to have a lot of stuff (see throw away and get a new one), some people are quality oriented and would gladly save for a better quality longer lasting item. I'm the last category, I have an axe that I bought in the 80's from Gransfors Bruks in Sweden, it costs 4 times anything else on the market but still does the job exceedingly well 30+ years later.

The difference I guess is that the second category is possible due to all the crap being produced cheaply from plastic, while this wasn't possible back when as you say.

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

This point is true to some extent, but behavioural psychologists have a slight different take on it. You can have a several types of spending habits, some people are scarcity oriented and like to save, some people are quantity oriented and like to have a lot of stuff (see throw away and get a new one), some people are quality oriented and would gladly save for a better quality longer lasting item. I'm the last category, I have an axe that I bought in the 80's from Gransfors Bruks in Sweden, it costs 4 times anything else on the market but still does the job exceedingly well 30+ years later.

The difference I guess is that the second category is possible due to all the crap being produced cheaply from plastic, while this wasn't possible back when as you say.

There is an element of truth to this, but also it's down to having the outright financial capital to make a high quality purchase that lasts vs spending more overall but less every time.

It's expensive to be poor.

Quote

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness

 

[Giro]

On 14/03/2021 at 00:09, Chindie said:

This very forum had a mixed race person described as a monkey recently so perhaps we're not without fault.

I brought it up in the Newcastle match thread and straight away got shot down by two people saying it was ok to say it as Dwight Gayle actually looks like a monkey. 
 

Couldn’t even be arsed to engage with them to be honest 

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Giro said:

I brought it up in the Newcastle match thread and straight away got shot down by two people saying it was ok to say it as Dwight Gayle actually looks like a monkey. 
 

Couldn’t even be arsed to engage with them to be honest 

Got a link?...

[Paddywhack]

5 minutes ago, Giro said:

I brought it up in the Newcastle match thread and straight away got shot down by two people saying it was ok to say it as Dwight Gayle actually looks like a monkey. 
 

Couldn’t even be arsed to engage with them to be honest 

Followed by "I wasn't being racist. If I wanted to be racist, I would be".

Which I thought was a very strange defence.

[Giro]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Got a link?...

its been deleted now, somebody obviously had a word with the original poster

 

https://www.villatalk.com/topic/21596-match-thread-newcastle-v-villa/page/10/

you can see where i mention that i thought it would of been picked up by more. somebody agreed with what i said at the time as well 

[Follyfoot]

2 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

I did start typing this as well but thought the three lines which I'd already typed were probably more of a response than the original post was worth!

But yes, younger generations want everything and don't know the achievement of saving for something? Try telling that to the people who have had to fork out rent (often at a higher price than future mortgage payments would be) for a tiny place to live whilst saving up to buy a house for a number of years.

 

2 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

I hate these kind of arguments. The one size fits all approach to labelling a generation of people is lazy at best.

The world is a very different place for kids today as it is in any generation growing up. Things are readily available now that wouldn't have been for previous generations of kids and the internet and social media in particular make the world a very different place for kids growing up. 

But I guess its always fun to generalise against a group of people with absolutely no basis for the opinion which is held.

 

Why? I have two teenage boys and also run a local youth club (well in normal times) three nights a week and I am also on the parents committee of a local school. Granted my comment is far too much of a generalisation for which I apologise. I will reword the comment as follows, It is the opinion of myself and my peers that a very large number of older children, certainly teens have the trait I describe, far, far more than when myself or my peers did at that age. As stated the subject comes up more than you would imagine at parents meetings and at Youth Club committee meetings let alone at home.  If you choose to dismiss my opinion fair enough but is is hardly baseless

 

[3_Penny_Opera]

5 hours ago, bickster said:

That would make you as intollerant of other peoples opinions as ISIS

Not sure what is so disgusting anyway, it equates the Royal Family with a racist police. The analogy stands up. Markle feels like she had no freedom within the Royal Family, hence the can't breath because the queen is pressing on her neck.

Damn.

You're right,  how did I not see it this way?  Jesus I'm a fool.

[3_Penny_Opera]

4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Pretty poor form this, considering some Muslim extremists took the same view as you (a cartoon I don't like justifies violence) and attacked the place. 

Yeah, I am just now seeing my idiocy.

Agreed.

[tom_avfc]

5 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Kids today have no sense of achievement in saving for something for weeks, maybe years or months and finally getting whatever it is. Got to have everything now, this second, it really is quite vulgar 

1 hour ago, Follyfoot said:

 

Why? I have two teenage boys and also run a local youth club (well in normal times) three nights a week and I am also on the parents committee of a local school. Granted my comment is far too much of a generalisation for which I apologise. I will reword the comment as follows, It is the opinion of myself and my peers that a very large number of older children, certainly teens have the trait I describe, far, far more than when myself or my peers did at that age. As stated the subject comes up more than you would imagine at parents meetings and at Youth Club committee meetings let alone at home.  If you choose to dismiss my opinion fair enough but is is hardly baseless

 

Your first post which generated a lot of responses isn't really the same as what you have written in the second post which is probably why a lot of people decided to dismiss it.

With regards to your new rewording I still don't think its a great comparison to be making. The world as a whole is completely different. There are far more things readily available to kids and there is far more pressure given social media etc. for kids to have the latest thing. 

Even 15 - 20 years ago the world was a completely different place. I remember saving money up or waiting for a birthday or christmas to get the things that I wanted. The trouble now is that everything is so fleeting in popularity that kids will get through a lot more things than I would have done growing up.

The biggest indicator of this is in video gaming to be fair. Things like skin packs and season passes weren't a thing when I was growing up. Gaming companies adding these to take advantage of kids wanting to have the latest thing is part of the problem.

I think your overall point is a reasonable one. To blame it on the kids and say that they have "no sense of achievement in saving" and that its "vulgar" is ignoring the circumstances around why it might be how it is.

[3_Penny_Opera]

I do have a question.

I am a partner of a Cuban Bar and Restaurant and have always had an aversion to the drink name, Mulata/Mulato Daiquiri.  I understand it is a classic, et al, I just personally don't enjoy the name.

Well another partner wants to add it to our menu and I am having trouble working up talking to him about how I dont want the name Mulata on a menu that I have something to do with.  Also, I'm half black and half white and hate the name mulatto.

Curious what your lot think.

[stuart_75]

1 hour ago, Follyfoot said:

 

Why? I have two teenage boys and also run a local youth club (well in normal times) three nights a week and I am also on the parents committee of a local school. Granted my comment is far too much of a generalisation for which I apologise. I will reword the comment as follows, It is the opinion of myself and my peers that a very large number of older children, certainly teens have the trait I describe, far, far more than when myself or my peers did at that age. As stated the subject comes up more than you would imagine at parents meetings and at Youth Club committee meetings let alone at home.  If you choose to dismiss my opinion fair enough but is is hardly baseless

 

My 14yr old son is of the same attitude that Follyfoot describes. The thought of having to work or just even save pocket for weeks/months to be able to buy something he wants just doesn't compute. 

I grew up in the 80's and only receiving  £1/week pocket money meant I had to piggy bank that money for months and months until I could afford a second hand disc drive for my Commodore 64.

 

Edit. not sure what its got to do with racism though.

Edited March 15, 2021 by stuart_75

[Paddywhack]

8 minutes ago, 3_Penny_Opera said:

I do have a question.

I am a partner of a Cuban Bar and Restaurant and have always had an aversion to the drink name, Mulata/Mulato Daiquiri.  I understand it is a classic, et al, I just personally don't enjoy the name.

Well another partner wants to add it to our menu and I am having trouble working up talking to him about how I dont want the name Mulata on a menu that I have something to do with.  Also, I'm half black and half white and hate the name mulatto.

Curious what your lot think.

I have to be honest, I've never heard the word mulatto before. Is that a word used a lot in America?

[StefanAVFC]

8 minutes ago, stuart_75 said:

My 14yr old son is of the same attitude that Follyfoot describes. The thought of having to work or just even save pocket for weeks/months to be able to buy something he wants just doesn't compute. 

I grew up in the 80's and only receiving  £1/week pocket money meant I had to piggy bank that money for months and months until I could afford a second hand disc drive for my Commodore 64.

 

Edit. not sure what its got to do with racism though.

On the other hand, back then a shop assistant could easily buy a house.

As others have said, different generations, different problems.