Racism Part two

[Spoony]

I feel like we are in a perpetual loop of relentless virtue signalling, ridiculous woke cancel culture and no actual positive action. I’m on board with people being called out in scenarios where they’re being racist or perhaps pointing out problematic behaviour when someone doesn’t realise it’s problematic and educating them. What I CAN’T stand is buzzfeed and all that shite basically relentlessly “cancelling” anyone who, in their view, has strayed off the perfect straight and narrow. Let’s cancel X and destroy anything they’ve ever done because that’s cool and look at how woke that makes me. Let’s also have a big article about what Disney princess I’d be, conveniently ignoring that Disney hasn’t been cancelled for being a massive anti-Semite and racist but hey ho. No one should be cancelled, everyone should have an opportunity to apologise and correct behaviour and move on, otherwise if people can’t be given some rope to improve and learn then what actually is the point?

Rather than virtue signalling all over the internet and focus on ridiculous, minor infractions, why not channel those efforts into more vigorously lobbying those that can actually make change and educating those who have made a mistake? Why not focus on positive action? Take football as an example. Rather than taking a knee, why not relentlessly focus on catching, banning and prosecuting racists, ban racist clubs and nations from competitions and actually do something to combat and educate people? But nah we will just take a knee and conversely support racists like Suarez and let the likes of Bulgaria crack on monkey chanting at our players with a slap on the wrist.

It’s not about fighting discrimination for most people and institutions - it’s the image of looking like you’re fighting discrimination that matters. I saw something criticising Bruno Mars for appropriating black culture the other day and people were jumping on board without a second thought. The bloke has always credited black music and cultures as his influences and he is embracing and celebrating that culture, not ‘appropriating’ it. Cultural appropriation exists sure, but it’s gone to the point where we actually must compartmentalise all cultures in some sort of strange apartheid.

I just wish people could focus on what matters, improving the world, educating people and letting people learn from mistakes,  letting people learn and celebrate cultures, not creating this toxic environment which is having the exact opposite effect. Despite all this new work culture, I think we are more divided than at any other point in my lifetime and I just despair.

Rant over. 

[Sam-AVFC]

16 minutes ago, Spoony said:

I feel like we are in a perpetual loop of relentless virtue signalling, ridiculous woke cancel culture and no actual positive action. I’m on board with people being called out in scenarios where they’re being racist or perhaps pointing out problematic behaviour when someone doesn’t realise it’s problematic and educating them. What I CAN’T stand is buzzfeed and all that shite basically relentlessly “cancelling” anyone who, in their view, has strayed off the perfect straight and narrow. Let’s cancel X and destroy anything they’ve ever done because that’s cool and look at how woke that makes me. Let’s also have a big article about what Disney princess I’d be, conveniently ignoring that Disney hasn’t been cancelled for being a massive anti-Semite and racist but hey ho. No one should be cancelled, everyone should have an opportunity to apologise and correct behaviour and move on, otherwise if people can’t be given some rope to improve and learn then what actually is the point?

Rather than virtue signalling all over the internet and focus on ridiculous, minor infractions, why not channel those efforts into more vigorously lobbying those that can actually make change and educating those who have made a mistake? Why not focus on positive action? Take football as an example. Rather than taking a knee, why not relentlessly focus on catching, banning and prosecuting racists, ban racist clubs and nations from competitions and actually do something to combat and educate people? But nah we will just take a knee and conversely support racists like Suarez and let the likes of Bulgaria crack on monkey chanting at our players with a slap on the wrist.

It’s not about fighting discrimination for most people and institutions - it’s the image of looking like you’re fighting discrimination that matters. I saw something criticising Bruno Mars for appropriating black culture the other day and people were jumping on board without a second thought. The bloke has always credited black music and cultures as his influences and he is embracing and celebrating that culture, not ‘appropriating’ it. Cultural appropriation exists sure, but it’s gone to the point where we actually must compartmentalise all cultures in some sort of strange apartheid.

I just wish people could focus on what matters, improving the world, educating people and letting people learn from mistakes,  letting people learn and celebrate cultures, not creating this toxic environment which is having the exact opposite effect. Despite all this new work culture, I think we are more divided than at any other point in my lifetime and I just despair.

Rant over. 

A charming thought, but completely ignoring that a huge amount of the amplification comes from the 'other side'. A few over jealous activists posting about something on social media turns into the full cohort of right wing commentators talking for months about how dangerous it is, when it's a few people on Twitter getting a bit over excited.

It's easy to say don't virtue signal, take action. I'm long past the point of trying to reason with certain people in my life on issues they don't understand. Try not to roll your eyes when someone tells you they never see racism in their 99.9% white town of 50k. I hear the n word (and worse) on a weekly basis there, but I'm supposed to accept there is no race problem as it wasn't said to the non-existent black people. I'm not sure the travellers, Poles and Romanians would agree there is no racism with the way they are treated either. There is basically complete segregation.

What am I supposed to do about it?

Completely agree with your last paragraph, it's pretty depressing.

I never bring up anything political to family, but I'm so tired of hearing them be irrationally angry about bullshit like there being a black Little Mermaid I just can't be bothered to communicate with them anymore.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Sam-AVFC

[chrisp65]

Perhaps people just need to be more selective on their use of social media? Is that the answer?

Stop following and looking at the stuff posted by the morons you don’t agree with? I don’t know, but if you have a thousand ‘friends’ on facebook, and follow a thousand people on twitter and another thousand on instagram, then I guess you’re going to see a fair bit of random shit.

I’d have to be honest, I don’t get to see very much of this ‘cancel culture’ just like I don’t get to see much actual racism.

 

 

[Spoony]

There’s definitely no simple answer and I agree my above post is too simplistic and in an ideal world we can just educate and get along.

One thing to add though, I don’t think the generational divide helps. I’m a millennial by definition but I think the fact we have “boomer”, “millennial”, “gen x” etc is **** stupid. Does saying “ok boomer”, calling everyone Karen or a snowflake really helping!?? Just helps to grow the divide really. Insulting people rarely brings them round to a different point a view. If you struggle to get through to the older generation, try harder. 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

I'd have to be honest, I don’t get to see very much of this ‘cancel culture’ just like I don’t get to see much actual racism.

 

 

Have to agree. 

Find it amusing how those shouting loudest about being cancelled are often the ones who are most vocal about denying racism exists. 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Spoony said:

There’s definitely no simple answer and I agree my above post is too simplistic and in an ideal world we can just educate and get along.

One thing to add though, I don’t think the generational divide helps. I’m a millennial by definition but I think the fact we have “boomer”, “millennial”, “gen x” etc is **** stupid. Does saying “ok boomer”, calling everyone Karen or a snowflake really helping!?? Just helps to grow the divide really. Insulting people rarely brings them round to a different point a view. If you struggle to get through to the older generation, try harder. 

This kind of shit happens at every generation. Minennials are lazy and have never worked for anything. Gen Z are privileged. All of it is bollocks. 

Truth is though, boomers got a lot for free or very cheap and for younger generations it's hard to get that same first foot in a career or on a housing ladder. 

[Sam-AVFC]

6 minutes ago, Spoony said:

There’s definitely no simple answer and I agree my above post is too simplistic and in an ideal world we can just educate and get along.

One thing to add though, I don’t think the generational divide helps. I’m a millennial by definition but I think the fact we have “boomer”, “millennial”, “gen x” etc is **** stupid. Does saying “ok boomer”, calling everyone Karen or a snowflake really helping!?? Just helps to grow the divide really. Insulting people rarely brings them round to a different point a view. If you struggle to get through to the older generation, try harder. 

I agree.

If I manage to smile through gritted teeth to my grandma (who basically 'bought' a free farm) when she treats me like a failure for not having bought a house in London by 25, then I'm sure people can manage to ignore objectionable strangers.

[Keyblade]

On 11/03/2021 at 12:51, Mark Albrighton said:

It is kinda race related, as Pepe would regularly ignore any nearby female black cats, but as soon as they had a bit of white emulsion drip on them from a nearby paint can overhead, thus making them look a bit whiter, he couldn’t wait to shower them with attention.

Saw an Instagram comedian make a similar joke to this, you need to ask for some royalties man   

(Warning, heavy New York accent):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU344SJHWe/

[Mark Albrighton]

17 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Saw an Instagram comedian make a similar joke to this, you need to ask for some royalties man   

(Warning, heavy New York accent):

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU344SJHWe/

Over half a million followers too. Versus my circa 7,500 likes for posting half-thought nonsense. I like those odds.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. 

I’ll give Pop Vazquez a day or two to give me an acknowledgment. If he doesn’t and if his new material mainly involves him bitching about Steve Bruce, then me and him will enter into a Bill Hicks/Denis Leary dynamic.

[Chindie]

This very forum had a mixed race person described as a monkey recently so perhaps we're not without fault.

[Stevo985]

6 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

This kind of shit happens at every generation. Minennials are lazy and have never worked for anything. Gen Z are privileged. All of it is bollocks. 

Yep.

In 10,000 years, if humans still exist, the older generation in that time will be moaning that youngsters have it easy and don't work hard and the elderly all had it harder. 

Like you said it's all bollocks.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, Chindie said:

This very forum had a mixed race person described as a monkey recently so perhaps we're not without fault.

One of our own players was described as such in the match thread yesterday and had people defending it.

[LondonLax]

13 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

This kind of shit happens at every generation. Minennials are lazy and have never worked for anything. Gen Z are privileged. All of it is bollocks. 

Truth is though, boomers got a lot for free or very cheap and for younger generations it's hard to get that same first foot in a career or on a housing ladder. 

How can you rally against generalisations (about your own generation) in one paragraph and then make generalisations about another generation in the next paragraph with out a hint of irony?

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

How can you rally against generalisations (about your own generation) in one paragraph and then make generalisations about another generation in the next paragraph with out a hint of irony?

Because he from a generation who think they have solved the Rubiks cube of life and that age and experience are more of a hinderance than advantage.  The type who scoff when told, “I wish I was your age knowing what I know now” 

 

[StefanAVFC]

4 hours ago, LondonLax said:

How can you rally against generalisations (about your own generation) in one paragraph and then make generalisations about another generation in the next paragraph with out a hint of irony?

The original post was lamenting younger generations pointing fun at older ones, whilst stating that younger generations should reach out to older ones. 

I was stating a pretty commonly accepted view that makes that divide hard to bridge, unless you wish to argue that the boomer generation didnt have free education, higher relative wages and lower house prices? 

[bickster]

36 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

unless you wish to argue that the boomer generation didnt have free education, higher relative wages and lower house prices? 

1) Much less of the "boomer" generation had access to free higher education. (I believe education should be free for all btw but this generalisation does not ever take that into account)

2) Higher relative wages? Is this true? I'm not convinced are there any stats to back this up? I mean an awful lot has changed since then, lifestylewise too

3) The House price thing is definitely true (and is something that really should be addressed)

[LondonLax]

Might be getting off topic. 

House prices were lower for the boomers but interest rates were huge and crippling. It’s very difficult to compare between generations because the struggles are different.

I supposedly a millennial so I’m in the group that has seen house prices going crazy during the low interest rates period and didn’t by a flat until into my 30s. By comparison my parents bought a house in their 20s on a working class income.

On the other hand my dad worked a minimum of 6 days a week to cover the mortgage repayments and my mother worked part time whilst trying to manage two children. They didn’t have holidays and had never even left the country until I was a teenager. We had run down cars that my dad could salvage from his work and ate very basic food. University was free but there was not enough spots for them to go.

Whilst I had been to uni and traveled pretty extensively in my 20s, have had a lot more free time and ‘freedom’. Have more ‘hobbies’ and have had a lot more ‘experiences’.  

I don’t think I’d trade my circumstances for theirs to be honest, even if the cost of housing is a nightmare.

(The main benefit of low house prices with high interest rates over the current situation is it is much easier to save a deposit when house prices are low instead of now where the house price races away from you faster than you can grow the deposit). 

[Seat68]

Interest rates got close to 20% in the 70s I think. That would probably financially cripple most now. 

[Follyfoot]

6 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Interest rates got close to 20% in the 70s I think. That would probably financially cripple most now. 

A fixed rate of 12% was a very good deal in 1990

Edited March 14, 2021 by Follyfoot

[chrisp65]

3 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

A fixed rate of 12% was a very good deal in 1990

I remember a friend of mine back whenever it was in ‘92 being chuffed to bits he got a fixed 13.5% deal signed up and locked in just before 15% hit.

But going back a little further, I think the real difference would be that ‘boomers’ for want of a less clunky demographic, could have gone private, or equally could have got a council house relatively easily. That option was basically then removed, and it was private rental, private ownership, or stay with mum. That’s the major difference for me, between the generation pigeon holes. The removal of affordable accommodation, the privatisation of ‘home’ and the subsequent profiteering by a landlord class.