Follyfoot Posted June 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2020 If we live in a world were burning the national flag of a country, In that country on a memorial to its war dead is deemed acceptable then is a very very sad day. It is totally odious behaviour. The perpetrator should be sat down with Sir Tom Moore and asked to explain her actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: If we live in a world were burning the national flag of a country, In that country on a memorial to its war dead is deemed acceptable then is a very very sad day. It is totally odious behaviour. The perpetrator should be sat down with Sir Tom Moore and asked to explain her actions I don't think anyone was specifically supporting the right of someone to burn the flag on The Cenotaph, the conversation just evolved into a more generalised discussion on burning flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted June 9, 2020 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: sat down with Sir Tom Moore I'm just curious how you know his opinions on such matters. As far as I'm aware he's never commented on such things. It sounds to me rather that you'e projecting your opinions onto someone to gain some kind of extra house points. Go pn admit it, you've just chucked his name in there because its trending 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 57 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: I don't think anyone was specifically supporting the right of someone to burn the flag on The Cenotaph, the conversation just evolved into a more generalised discussion on burning flags. Indeed. It's about context. I'm not sure I or many others have argued for the right of someone to burn other people's property. On a quite simple point, there's a world of difference between buying your own flag and deciding to burn that and clambering on to a war memorial and attempting to burn a flag there. Sure, there is symbolism in the act of burning a flag anywhere - as others have said there is supposed to be - but it's your bloody flag and (allowing for not causing a fire risk, &c.) you should be allowed to dispose of it as you please. On the specific bit about showing disrespect to those memorialised by the Cenotaph, the woman who jumped on it and tried to burn the flag did show that. I also take the view that the numerous civilian (and military) leaders who lay wreaths and parade past it once a year whilst still sending thousands and more to wars on dodgy pretences, with inadequate kit and poor support when they return traumatised, injured and damaged probably show a significant lack of respect when claiming to honour the memories of the fallen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, bickster said: I'm just curious how you know his opinions on such matters. As far as I'm aware he's never commented on such things. It sounds to me rather that you'e projecting your opinions onto someone to gain some kind of extra house points. Go pn admit it, you've just chucked his name in there because its trending Quiet the opposite, I put his name in there not so much because of the burning flag but because the scrote involved was part of a group breaking social distancing guidelines and I guess he would be appalled by this after all the good work he did for the NHS at the ripe old age he is. I cannot comment about his views regarding burning the flag but have my own opinions On how he would perceive such actions Edited June 9, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2020 44 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Quiet the opposite, I put his name in there not so much because of the burning flag but because the scrote involved was part of a group breaking social distancing guidelines and I guess he would be appalled by this after all the good work he did for the NHS at the ripe old age he is. I cannot comment about his views regarding burning the flag but have my own opinions On how he would perceive such actions That bears absolutely no relation to what you actually posted. Not one mention of social distancing in your post, your post was about flag burning. Thanks for the confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) You’re wrong. Admittedly it was a funnel but the point is valid Edited June 9, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, snowychap said: Indeed. It's about context. I'm not sure I or many others have argued for the right of someone to burn other people's property. On a quite simple point, there's a world of difference between buying your own flag and deciding to burn that and clambering on to a war memorial and attempting to burn a flag there. Sure, there is symbolism in the act of burning a flag anywhere - as others have said there is supposed to be - but it's your bloody flag and (allowing for not causing a fire risk, &c.) you should be allowed to dispose of it as you please. On the specific bit about showing disrespect to those memorialised by the Cenotaph, the woman who jumped on it and tried to burn the flag did show that. I also take the view that the numerous civilian (and military) leaders who lay wreaths and parade past it once a year whilst still sending thousands and more to wars on dodgy pretences, with inadequate kit and poor support when they return traumatised, injured and damaged probably show a significant lack of respect when claiming to honour the memories of the fallen. What about when that property is a statue rather than a flag? Clearly we are talking about whether it is acceptable to damage property we don’t own if we decide we don’t like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted June 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, LondonLax said: What about when that property is a statue rather than a flag? Clearly we are talking about whether it is acceptable to damage property we don’t own if we decide we don’t like it. Surely the only honest answer is "it depends on the property, the damage and the context" Unless anyone is prepared to argue that the people who took hammers to the Berlin Wall should have been prosecuted for criminal damage... Edited June 9, 2020 by ml1dch 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, ml1dch said: Surely the only honest answer is "it depends on the property, the damage and the context" Unless anyone is going to argue that the people who took hammers to the Berlin Wall should have been prosecuted for criminal damage... Some people liked that wall and really believed in it, you know. Bloody vandals. Thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Follyfoot said: If we live in a world were burning the national flag of a country, In that country on a memorial to its war dead is deemed acceptable then is a very very sad day. It is totally odious behaviour. The perpetrator should be sat down with Sir Tom Moore and asked to explain her actions Quite right, although its unfair to get the great man involved. he's done more than enough for this country. Burning of flags is wrong and desecrating statues of war heroes is the lowest of the low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post choffer Posted June 9, 2020 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, PaulC said: Burning of flags is wrong and desecrating statues of war heroes is the lowest of the low. I've got to be honest, I can think of a number of things lower. Some of which are the cause of the protests. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Surely the only honest answer is "it depends on the property, the damage and the context" Unless anyone is prepared to argue that the people who took hammers to the Berlin Wall should have been prosecuted for criminal damage... It’s a truly fascinating subject isn’t it. Absolutely agree, the Berlin Wall needed to come down. Except, not all of it has. For all the oppression and death, they’ve kept some but as an educational piece. Just as they have Russian tanks on plinths in the centre of Berlin. It’s too much about context to have a one size fits all rule. We need to rapidly address some wrongs whilst avoiding cultural purges. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted June 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2020 Staggers me people have more of an issue with the burning of a piece of cloth than the decades long systematic mistreatment of an entire race of people. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Staggers me people have more of an issue with the burning of a piece of cloth than the decades long systematic mistreatment of an entire race of people. Its not but you have to have respect for the country you live otherwise what do you have, disorder, anarchy. Its a slippery slope. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Surely the only honest answer is "it depends on the property, the damage and the context" Unless anyone is prepared to argue that the people who took hammers to the Berlin Wall should have been prosecuted for criminal damage... Exactly, so this is why there is nuance and a lot of discussion to be had. On a similar note I saw a post in the US politics thread where people were cheering that some numpty who was giving a Hitler salute got punched in the head. That is an example of beating a person for doing something that the attacker found offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, PaulC said: Its not but you have to have respect for the country you live otherwise what do you have, disorder, anarchy. Its a slippery slope. Pains me to say it , but I think @StefanAVFC comments is the correct answer I think you're taking the flag thing far too literally , If one person in isolation tries to burn a flag as part of what they feel is a legitimate protest , I think their symbolic protest is kinda loosely acceptable ,I don't think it will lead to disorder and anarchy ..... if they were joining ISIS and burning flags then No , that isn't acceptable ... but there is a big difference 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Pains me to say it , but I think @StefanAVFC comments is the correct answer I think you're taking the flag thing far too literally , If one person in isolation tries to burn a flag as part of what they feel is a legitimate protest , I think their symbolic protest is kinda loosely acceptable ,I don't think it will lead to disorder and anarchy ..... if they were joining ISIS and burning flags then No , that isn't acceptable ... but there is a big difference There are no grey areas. Its wrong! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, PaulC said: There are no grey areas. Its wrong! Burning a Nazi flag? or a confederate flag? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, PaulC said: There are no grey areas. Its wrong! There are few acts so abhorrent and unjustifiable that this is true. Burning a flag certainly isn't one of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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