snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Ok so then you should be prepared for the consequences right? Legally nothing can be done to you because the country gives you the right to burn its flag. But people may not feel the same way. So if he gets the shit kicked out of him he deserves it in my opinion. That's a really bizarre take on things. People are legally allowed to do something but because it really pisses other people off then he deserves to get the shit kicked out of him - which is, obviously, illegal? That's some pretty screwed up, arse backwards thinking there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: Why the hell not? I hate flags. Apart from Six Flags. Oh man, this ain’t just about flags and you know that. If I hate you Snowy and want revenge on you. I will enact the revenge on you only. Not your whole family. So as ridiculous as it sounds you may think burning a flag or a religious symbol is an attack on a government or institution. It’s not. It’s an attack on everyone that holds that item close to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: That's a really bizarre take on things. People are legally allowed to do something but because it really pisses other people off then he deserves to get the shit kicked out of him - which is, obviously, illegal? That's some pretty screwed up, arse backwards thinking there. It would be to you. No respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: We're running very close to th"e Charlie hebdo journalists deserved it" territory with this line of argument. Nobody deserves to be killed for their views. But they knew what they were provoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: It would be to you. No respect. I'm sorry but how you can talk about respect when you are advocating people beating the shit out of other people becuase they've been offended is quite remarkable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What maybe a piece of cloth to you may mean a lot to another person. So if you l burn that cloth knowing it will offend someone deeply then you deserve a beating from that snowflake. I can eat a hamburger in public and it could offend a vegan or a Hindu. I can throw the wrapper on the floor and offend some environmentalist. According to you they'd be justified in beating the shit out of me for these transgressions. Mental. And that's without getting into the silliness of holding a flag in reverence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Oh man, this ain’t just about flags and you know that. If I hate you Snowy and want revenge on you. I will enact the revenge on you only. Not your whole family. So as ridiculous as it sounds you may think burning a flag or a religious symbol is an attack on a government or institution. It’s not. It’s an attack on everyone that holds that item close to them. People should stop holding flags 'close to them'. It's silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, snowychap said: I'm sorry but how you can talk about respect when you are advocating people beating the shit out of other people becuase they've been offended is quite remarkable. If you don’t want a beating, Don’t deliberately disrespect and provoke people. If you insult my mother I’d punch you. Now let’s just say ‘Mohammed’ is even more important to somebody than their mother. If you don’t want a punch from them don’t disrespect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: I can eat a hamburger in public and it could offend a vegan or a Hindu. I can throw the wrapper on the floor and offend some environmentalist. According to you they'd be justified in beating the shit out of me for these transgressions. Mental. And that's without getting into the silliness of holding a flag in reverence. If you ate a hamburger in front of a vegan or Hindu to deliberately provoke and offend them yeah; you deserve a punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, snowychap said: People should stop holding flags 'close to them'. It's silly. I agree with that. It’s trivial. Who cares about a flag? But that’s not the point. Who are you to decide what’s important to someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If you don’t want a beating, Don’t deliberately disrespect and provoke people. If you insult my mother I’d punch you. Now let’s just say ‘Mohammed’ is even more important to somebody than their mother. If you don’t want a punch from them don’t disrespect them. Offending someone does not give them the right to carry out whatever physical retribution they see fit. That you think it does and that you are saying that it is not only okay but just - because really you're going several steps further than just saying that someone shouldn't be surprised if they provoke someone in to attacking them - is, frankly, much more disrespectful to this country, the people that live in it and the rule of law than the burning of a flag. Edited June 8, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 For the record there’s no excuse for violence. I was only saying that to exaggerate the point: but I don’t think we should be mindful of who and how many people we could offend before we act. Otherwise we are not better than those we are against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If you ate a hamburger in front of a vegan or Hindu to deliberately provoke and offend them yeah; you deserve a punch. Yes I'm sure the people who burned the flag did it simply to be provocative and offend some random faceless people and not because they were making a statement during a protest where they were uh *checks notes* protesting the entity the thing they were burning is supposed to symbolize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, snowychap said: Offending someone does not give them the right to carry out whatever physical retribution they see fit. That you think it does and that you are saying that it is not only okay but just - because really you're going several steps further than just saying that someone shouldn't be surprised if they provoke someone in to attacking them - is, frankly, much more disrespectful to this country, the rule of law and the people that live in it than the burning of a flag. See my other post. The violence part was a step to far. I apologise. But you have no right to offend thousands if not millions of people to target a select few. What maybe trivial to you may not be for many others. Just because it’s legal and you can get away with it. Doesn’t make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I agree with that. It’s trivial. Who cares about a flag? But that’s not the point. Who are you to decide what’s important to someone? I'm not. People can decide for themselves what is important to them. Deciding for themselves that their response to a lawful act should be an unllawful act because they took offence is not on. That you are advocating for it and justifying it is cockeyed. You're also an advocate of people being 'in fear' of the police, if memory serves? How are you squaring that with your advocating violent retribution for people who cause offence? Edited June 8, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: Yes I'm sure the people who burned the flag did it simply to be provocative and offend some random faceless people and not because they were making a statement during a protest where they were uh *checks notes* protesting the entity the thing they were burning is supposed to symbolize. That’s my point. They didn’t think about who they are offending. Mindless acts. We’re never going to understand each other. May as well agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: For the record there’s no excuse for violence. I was only saying that to exaggerate the point: but I don’t think we should be mindful of who and how many people we could offend before we act. Otherwise we are not better than those we are against. Rubbish. You've just been arguing in favour of it as an acceptable response when people are offended. Now you're trying to suggest that your point all along in this was merely to highlight being considerate of others? I call a huge load of bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, snowychap said: I'm not. People can decide for themselves what is important to them. Deciding for themselves that their response to a lawful act should be an unllawful act because they took offence is not on. That you are advocating for it and justifying it is cockeyed. You're also an advocate of people being 'in fear' of the police, if memory serves? How are you squaring that with your advocating violent retribution for people who cause offence? Good memory. I took back the violence retribution part. You’re never going to get it mate. Let’s park it there before I get some violent retribution from the missus for the time I've spent on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: Rubbish. You've just been arguing in favour of it as an acceptable response when people are offended. Now you're trying to suggest that your point all along in this was merely to highlight being considerate of others? I call a huge load of bollocks. Call it what you want mate. Honestly though. I don’t mean the violence part. I apologise. Where I’m from you are lucky to get just a beating for even daring to disrespect a religious or national symbol. Sometimes I take for granted how luck we are in England and it winds me up when people take that for granted. Again I apologise. No offence meant. Edited June 8, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: See my other post. The violence part was a step to far. I apologise. But you have no right to offend thousands if not millions of people to target a select few. What maybe trivial to you may not be for many others. Just because it’s legal and you can get away with it. Doesn’t make it right. The problem here (and it's not helped that you advocate something for quite a few posts and then try and row back on it by saying that you were only exaggerating and that it was a step too far) is that your whole point is a load of confused and confusing rubbish. You could simply have said that people should think things through more before they take an action which may well offend other people and that they may put themselves at risk of consequences which they shouldn't suffer but which they may have done something to provoke. You didn't. Instead you went along with a line that people shouldn't burn flags because in other countries they can't burn flags but in this country we can and so we shouldn't and it's not about flags anyway, it's about people being offended and then they can beat the shit out of other people because if you're offended that's okay because of your mother. Edited June 8, 2020 by snowychap erroneous o & l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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