Racism Part two

[snowychap]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Sometimes I take for granted how luck we are in England and it winds me up when people take that for granted.

It sounds as though the 'people' you should be having a word with is you.

[Keyblade]

15 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

That’s my point. They didn’t think about who they are offending. Mindless acts. We’re never going to understand each other. May as well agree to disagree.

You're just contradicting yourself all over the place. It's not mindless at all, it's very pointed actually. 

Instead of getting yourself into a rhetorical twist because you're working backwards from an emotional impulse, just say you don't like people burning the flag and call it a day. Otherwise you'll find yourself condoning violence when you don't really mean to.

[Vive_La_Villa]

edit: going for a walk as advised 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[LondonLax]

A person could find literally anything to be offensive in the eyes of that person. A person could find burning a flag offensive to them. They could find the mocking of a religious figure to be offensive to them. They could find a women wearing a short skirt offensive to them. They could find the colour of another persons skin offensive to them. They could find a person sneezing in public offensive to them.

To claim you have the right to some sort of retribution against a person who has offended you results in a limitless power to dish out retribution, simply by claiming you were ‘offended’.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

A person could find literally anything to be offensive in the eyes of that person. A person could find burning a flag offensive to them. They could find the mocking of a religious figure to be offensive to them. They could find a women wearing a short skirt offensive to them. They could find the colour of another persons skin offensive to them. They could find a person sneezing in public offensive to them.

To claim you have the right to some sort of retribution against a person who has offended you results in a limitless power to dish out retribution, simply by claiming you were ‘offended’.

You lot take everything so literally to make your point and provoke an argument. That little prick that burnt that flag is a complete f**king tool. My opinion. Is that ok?

[Keyblade]

12 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You lot take everything so literally to make your point and provoke an argument. That little prick that burnt that flag is a complete f**king tool. My opinion. Is that ok?

Could've just said that and avoided this whole song and dance.

[snowychap]

11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

edit: why did you have to mention my mother.

Because you posted the following in your arguments on the previous page:

53 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If you insult my mother I’d punch you.

I was summing up the arguments you were making and that was one of the things you said.

17 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You white people may not have respect for  mothers but I do.

What a truly idiotic thing to post.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Could've just said that and avoided this whole song and dance.

I did!!

[Keyblade]

Update on the slaver statue

 

Were they planning on swimming back up with it on their shoulders or something

[bickster]

So let me get this straight.

 

If your protesting and want to burn something as a symbol, you should literally check with absolutely everyone beforehand, that they won't be offended? If literally one person is offended, then that's a big no no.

No-one has the right not to be offended, in fact if no-one was offended, the protest is pretty much pointless

Some very odd ideas of what people should actually do to make their feelings known

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

So let me get this straight.

 

If your protesting and want to burn something as a symbol, you should literally check with absolutely everyone beforehand, that they won't be offended? If literally one person is offended, then that's a big no no.

No-one has the right not to be offended, in fact if no-one was offended, the protest is pretty much pointless

Some very odd ideas of what people should actually do to make their feelings known

Beyond just not personally liking the act/being offended, it's essentially saying to people, suck it up and take it in silence.

[Vive_La_Villa]

49 minutes ago, bickster said:

So let me get this straight.

 

If your protesting and want to burn something as a symbol, you should literally check with absolutely everyone beforehand, that they won't be offended? If literally one person is offended, then that's a big no no.

No-one has the right not to be offended, in fact if no-one was offended, the protest is pretty much pointless

Some very odd ideas of what people should actually do to make their feelings known

Bickster i just found the flag burning both disrespectful and distasteful.  It’s not going to help the cause. If anything it hinders it by offending millions unnecessarily. Whether people should be offended or not is a different story. But the protests were fine without that single act. Just my opinion.  Clearly many on here don’t agree and It seems I’m on my own with this view. I get that.  
 

edit: if somebody has an opinion that’s different to yours why does it have to be ‘odd’?  I really do not get why people can’t just have a debate on here without adding this kind of comment at the end.  Then they wonder why others get wound up and say things that are inappropriate.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[Sam-AVFC]

By the way @Vive_La_Villa, I hadn't realised the original discussion sprung from someone burning the flag on The Cenotaph - I do have a problem with someone burning this very specific flag as it's attached to a monument to the deaths of countless people. I still wouldn't countenance the guy being jumped, but I'm 100% sure if any damage was done the person will be pursued as it's a pretty politically easy case.

Anyway, I've probably posted enough of my views on empty symbols for the day. I'm off to burn a Robbie Savage effigy in Small Heath.

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

By the way @Vive_La_Villa, I hadn't realised the original discussion sprung from someone burning the flag on The Cenotaph - I do have a problem with someone burning this very specific flag as it's attached to a monument to the deaths of countless people. I still wouldn't countenance the guy being jumped, but I'm 100% sure if any damage was done the person will be pursued as it's a pretty politically easy case.

Anyway, I've probably posted enough of my views on empty symbols for the day. I'm off to burn a Robbie Savage effigy in Small Heath.

I didn’t even know it was a flag that was on the Cenotaph. That’s really sad to see.  

Really discredits all the good things that are being done by people for this cause.  People on here are shocked that some are making a big deal of a piece of cloth being burnt.  I’m shocked how easily it’s being shrugged off as trivial. 
 

Anyway I’ve also said enough on the matter so will leave it there.

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

t: if somebody has an opinion that’s different to yours why does it have to be ‘odd’?  

Because it follows no logic, it is odd. The logical conclusions of the opinion are bizarre. You're entitled to hold the opinion but it actually makes no sense

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

Because it follows no logic, it is odd. The logical conclusions of the opinion are bizarre. You're entitled to hold the opinion but it actually makes no sense

You are not understanding me and I’m struggling to explain myself in writing. Everything I say seems to get taken out of context or comes out incorrectly.

Let’s leave it there please  

[chrisp65]

On flags, we had a China national flag at the local football, because of a funny real incident that happened at the club. Under previous ownership there was a well documented incident of the owner letting some people in to the club, seemingly forgetting he already had a Chinese gentleman friend in there, just wearing underpants.

So we had a song, ‘Chinese! In his underpants. Chinese! In his underpants’. Which was funny, and factual so we would all sing it.

Then we got hold a Chinese’s flag, and that was funny, it reminded people of the song.

Then someone at some point (whoever was looking after the flags between games) added a pair of underpants drawn on the Chinese flag. Which we all collectively decided was still funny, so it still got used.

Then, then, someone drew a pair of slants slitty little eyes on the under[pants. 

And we decided at that point it was time to draw a line under Chinese, in his underpants.

In Hong Kong, I guess we’d all have got 5 years in prison before we got to the point of self policing and retiring the flag.

 

[Seat68]

5 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

On flags, we had a China national flag at the local football, because of a funny real incident that happened at the club. Under previous ownership there was a well documented incident of the owner letting some people in to the club, seemingly forgetting he already had a Chinese gentleman friend in there, just wearing underpants.

So we had a song, ‘Chinese! In his underpants. Chinese! In his underpants’. Which was funny, and factual so we would all sing it.

Then we got hold a Chinese’s flag, and that was funny, it reminded people of the song.

Then someone at some point (whoever was looking after the flags between games) added a pair of underpants drawn on the Chinese flag. Which we all collectively decided was still funny, so it still got used.

Then, then, someone drew a pair of slants slitty little eyes on the under[pants. 

And we decided at that point it was time to draw a line under Chinese, in his underpants.

In Hong Kong, I guess we’d all have got 5 years in prison before we got to the point of self policing and retiring the flag.

 

Gavin and Stacey Script rejection?

[blandy]

6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

... a flag that was on the Cenotaph. That’s really sad to see.  

Really discredits all the good things that are being done by people for this cause.  People on here are shocked that some are making a big deal of a piece of cloth being burnt.  I’m shocked how easily it’s being shrugged off as trivial....

I agree with this sentiment. As an individual I’m not personally insulted or offended because I’m not big on national flags and the way they’re sometimes used. But firstly the act of burning flags is meant to offend and express contempt. It’s meant to be seen as a gesture of complete rejection of what the flag represents. For some people a flag will represent a history of repression of minorities, but for others that same flag will represent a history of acts of bravery and kindness, of tolerance and virtue and sacrifice. That’s the thing with symbols, they are interpreted differently by different people, but burning flags is intended to offend far more often than not. 

[Demitri_C]

11 hours ago, choffer said:

But Dem, having seen the video (where he clearly didn’t do what you had initially alleged) you still said.

This suggests that you still think what he said was out of order. 
 

And you have to realise the damage that can be done by using the word “allegedly”. With that word, anyone can spread false rumours without impunity. Mud sticks. Regardless of our political affiliation, our beliefs, the colour of our skin, we should hold each other to a higher standard than that. To make a claim and then suggest it was only “allegedly” when proved false is no way to try and make a point. 

What i meant by this just to clarify as this is the end of the subject for me, this easily could have gone wrong for him. The media could easily have edited that video to make him look racist and turned that section of his speech. Look how its flaring up on social media?

The wording was a mess even his friends that i know have told me it wasnt worded well. Like i have said a few times now i only saw a 30 second clip and only saw the full clip when it was uploaded here. If i had said ajs racist after  viewing what he said then i get that but i didnt. 

Aj clearly didnt read the note before he read it out. 

I hope that clarifies things as im done explaining again