Racism in Football

[tomav84]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Simply, because that's the best 11. There's no race issue to find??

 

sigh.....again, no one is saying there's definitely a race issue, they're just asking the question as to why the team is entirely white and whether there are areas of the country that are being overlooked in terms of scouting etc

[picicata]

17 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

My god people do talk some boll****s on here. There is really no issue!

Would the women's team have got to the final quicker, easier, if they included some brown players? The team is picked on merit that's it. 

The problem with the media, is they  look under every stone and convince people like you it's a bigger problem than it really is.

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting there is an issue with racism within this squad, clearly the best English players playing the game are in the team on merit and that is why they are doing so well.

It is right though to ask the question as to why the women's game is so dominated by one ethnicity when the men's game clearly isn't. Is it because at the roots of the women's game some areas and some ethnicities are not able to access the opportunities? Is it adversely affecting certain people? 

In the end it is important that these questions are asked because to improve the woman's game overall you need to give as many as possible the opportunity to succeed in it.

[foreveryoung]

8 hours ago, DakotaVilla said:

There’s definitely an issue. In a diverse country such as the UK it is pretty much statistically impossible to have an all white line up based purely on footballing merit.

All you have to do is look at pretty much every single UK XI in the professional mens game as supporting evidence. 

 

8 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

sigh.....again, no one is saying there's definitely a race issue, they're just asking the question as to why the team is entirely white and whether there are areas of the country that are being overlooked in terms of scouting etc

Someone is.

[JPJCB]

14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

That's rubbish. Nikita Paris, Jess Carter and Demi Stokes are part of that England squad, but not good enough to start. So obviously there are no English brown players good enough at the moment..

Stop trying to find racism when it just isn't there.

If you actually read my post you’ll see I’m explicitly *not* saying that they aren’t picked purely based on race. I’m making a point that the number of non-white English players at a top level in the womens game is lower so mathematically it’s likely to be a “whiter” sport. 

[Mic09]

1 hour ago, picicata said:

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting there is an issue with racism within this squad, clearly the best English players playing the game are in the team on merit and that is why they are doing so well.

It is right though to ask the question as to why the women's game is so dominated by one ethnicity when the men's game clearly isn't. Is it because at the roots of the women's game some areas and some ethnicities are not able to access the opportunities? Is it adversely affecting certain people? 

In the end it is important that these questions are asked because to improve the woman's game overall you need to give as many as possible the opportunity to succeed in it.

I once read a report that young men of a black background are on average stronger and more physical in their teenage years compared with other races. They develop quicker (physically). Obviously teenege years are key time in football development. You either make it at 12-16 or you won't make it to the next level. Being stronger and faster while being equally good at other aspects of the game might put them in front. 

Maybe the physical aspect isn't as important in women's development hence black players are not as represented in the game? 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Mic09

[picicata]

10 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I once read a report that young men of a black background are on average stronger and more physical in their teenage years compared with other races. They develop quicker (physically). Obviously teenege years are key time in football development. You either make it at 12-16 or you won't make it to the next level. Being stronger and faster while being equally good at other aspects of the game might put them in front. 

Maybe the physical aspect isn't as important in women's development hence black players are not as represented in the game? 

You maybe correct and that is exactly why these sorts of questions should be asked and looked into

[DakotaVilla]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

 

Someone is.

I’m a person of colour. 
To me it’s absolutely blatantly obvious that there are deep systemic issues in womens football.

I’m not saying there’s racism in the squad per se. Only those close enough to the squad itself, especially the black girls on the fringes, would know that. I doubt there is, based on the success achieved so far.

By the way, that doesn’t in any way detract from the amazing achievements of the girls that have been selected. Hopefully, they win the final and go and inspire a generation of girls, of all backgrounds, to follow in their footsteps in the future. 

 

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, tomav84 said:

sigh.....again, no one is saying there's definitely a race issue, they're just asking the question as to why the team is entirely white and whether there are areas of the country that are being overlooked in terms of scouting etc

Some of the most iconic female English players in last 20 years are black or mixed race, Alex Scott (140), Rachel Yankey (,129), Anita Asante (71 caps), Eni Aluko (102).....totted up and total of nearly 450 caps between those four. I just think it's a selection quirk.

Think bigger issue is for both genders why so few British asians are coming through. Bend it like Beckham film was based on that narrative and it came out in 2002 so still there's obstacles for anyone who wants to play football growing up I suspect.

[colhint]

I think one factor is money. Loads of boys grow up wanting to be a multi millionaire footballer. I doubt many girls grow up wanting to be a £30k a year top flight player.

[Davkaus]

Similar disparities in officials as well. We've not had a black ref in the top flight since Uriah Rennie have we? And I don't think I've ever seen an Asian official in English football

It's not about self flagellation and condemning it as some racist plot, but it's a question worth asking - is the sport inclusive and accessible, and if not, are there things we can do to ensure that it really is the best players that make it to the England team

Edited July 31, 2022 by Davkaus

[Xela]

36 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Some of the most iconic female English players in last 20 years are black or mixed race, Alex Scott (140), Rachel Yankey (,129), Anita Asante (71 caps), Eni Aluko (102).....totted up and total of nearly 450 caps between those four. I just think it's a selection quirk.

Hope Powell as well. 66 caps and managed the national team for 15 years.

Hopefully it is just a selection quirk at the moment. Some decent young black footballers coming through - Lauren James and Ebony Salmon.

[The_Steve]

A lot of factors will intersect with ethnicity - especially with charging girls to play, a lack of access to green spaces, a lack of representation in coaching and schools failing to adequately offer football on substantive levels. These are structural failings. And it’s reflected when there’s a lack of Black and Asian women at the highest level. No barrier is accidental. 

[OutByEaster?]

Representation in football is strange - six of the last England mens team were black - that's almost thirty times the amount of black players there should be representatively based on the UK's population according to the 2019 survey.

"Black/African/Carribean/Black British" was an option on the 2019 survey and was selected by 3.5% of the population - on a statistical basis, that's one player in the England squad.

There were no Asian players in that squad, and with 8% of the population in 2019 identifying as Asian/British Asian, you'd expect there to be one player in the team and a couple in the squad - there's nobody.

Statistically, in 2019, 84.8% of England and Wales’ population identified their ethnicity as White, so as part of an eleven, that means probably nine or ten of the players on the pitch would be white English with one Asian player and a Black player brought on for a White player just after half time.

The statistical anomaly by population is that the mens game is massively, over-proportionally represented by Black players.

Weirdly, the women's team is actually more representative of the general population, albeit there should be a couple of Asian players in the squad.

In terms of the game generally, I think it's long been the case that Asian/British Asian men and women are very much under represented - but I think in general that football, which is often demonised as a game rife with racism is actually (in this country at least) something we can be rightly proud of for the way that it integrates people of all sorts of different backgrounds and colours - both at a professional level and in your Sunday league teams - it's one of the key ways that British people of different cultures come together. 

I don't think there's a problem, I think there's sometimes a misunderstanding based on the statistical anomaly of there being so many black players at the senior level.

Where progress on racism does still need to be made is in boardrooms.

 

[Zatman]

42 minutes ago, Xela said:

Hope Powell as well. 66 caps and managed the national team for 15 years.

Hopefully it is just a selection quirk at the moment. Some decent young black footballers coming through - Lauren James and Ebony Salmon.

I think i mentioned in the other thread. The national team management racism scandal about 7/8 years ago probably put off a generation of black kids wanting to play football

 

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Some of the most iconic female English players in last 20 years are black or mixed race, Alex Scott (140), Rachel Yankey (,129), Anita Asante (71 caps), Eni Aluko (102).....totted up and total of nearly 450 caps between those four. I just think it's a selection quirk.

Think bigger issue is for both genders why so few British asians are coming through. Bend it like Beckham film was based on that narrative and it came out in 2002 so still there's obstacles for anyone who wants to play football growing up I suspect.

I don't really agree with this, as I think it's based perhaps unwittingly on the 'march of history' idea that things become more inclusive and more progressive over time, whereas I don't think that holds up. Progress towards more inclusion can go into reverse. This is clearest in cricket, where the proportion of players who are of a state school background has declined, while the sport at county level is significantly whiter than the population at large and is making no progress and perhaps going into reverse in terms of black players. It's entirely possible that women's football has just become whiter (and even, possibly, less inclusive) since Scott, Aluko and Asante.

[paul514]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Representation in football is strange - six of the last England mens team were black - that's almost thirty times the amount of black players there should be representatively based on the UK's population according to the 2019 survey.

"Black/African/Carribean/Black British" was an option on the 2019 survey and was selected by 3.5% of the population - on a statistical basis, that's one player in the England squad.

There were no Asian players in that squad, and with 8% of the population in 2019 identifying as Asian/British Asian, you'd expect there to be one player in the team and a couple in the squad - there's nobody.

Statistically, in 2019, 84.8% of England and Wales’ population identified their ethnicity as White, so as part of an eleven, that means probably nine or ten of the players on the pitch would be white English with one Asian player and a Black player brought on for a White player just after half time.

The statistical anomaly by population is that the mens game is massively, over-proportionally represented by Black players.

Weirdly, the women's team is actually more representative of the general population, albeit there should be a couple of Asian players in the squad.

In terms of the game generally, I think it's long been the case that Asian/British Asian men and women are very much under represented - but I think in general that football, which is often demonised as a game rife with racism is actually (in this country at least) something we can be rightly proud of for the way that it integrates people of all sorts of different backgrounds and colours - both at a professional level and in your Sunday league teams - it's one of the key ways that British people of different cultures come together. 

I don't think there's a problem, I think there's sometimes a misunderstanding based on the statistical anomaly of there being so many black players at the senior level.

Where progress on racism does still need to be made is in boardrooms.

 

Let’s have an investigation of the systematic oppression of white men in the England team then…..

We live in clown world, no one cares if the squad is half black or whatever it is in the mens team even though it is way over ‘representation’

Also representation of skin colour in boards is stupid as well, it should be the most talented, hard working and diverse in terms of ideas.

[LondonLax]

4 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Also representation of skin colour in boards is stupid as well, it should be the most talented, hard working and diverse in terms of ideas.

I don’t think anyone disagrees with this idea in principle. 

The first problem is whether an all white board room actually is the most talented?

But the second, and perhaps an even more complicated question, could be ‘even if an all white board is the most talented what is going on that makes that group more talented than a board that better represents society?’

Could something be done in society to have the ‘most talented board’ also be one that better represents all groups in society? 

They are not always easy questions to answer. 

[JPJCB]

3 hours ago, colhint said:

I think one factor is money. Loads of boys grow up wanting to be a multi millionaire footballer. I doubt many girls grow up wanting to be a £30k a year top flight player.

That explains why there might be fewer girls/women playing football in general, but not why there seems to be a racial discrepancy 

[blandy]

46 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Progress towards more inclusion can go into reverse. This is clearest in cricket, where the proportion of players who are of a state school background has declined, while the sport at county level is significantly whiter than the population at large and is making no progress and perhaps going into reverse in terms of black players.

With cricket the problem seems to be around the selling off of school playing fields, teacher workload and money. Opportunity is hard to come across for loads of “normal” kids. Plus unlike football it’s all hidden away (or was till last year) on subscription telly.

The Freddie Flintoff doco series still available on iPlayer is brilliant, by the way, even for non cricket fans.

Another brilliant thing is Ebony Rainford-Brent’s academy scheme for black kids , which she started in Surrey and has now extended to Warwickshire with more to follow 

To get back in topic, the two examples above are examples of people taking positive actions to help and encourage and open up opportunities to people who wouldn’t otherwise have them and it seems like the current Women’s Euros will do an awful lot to encourage youngsters of all walks to take up the sport for fun, or more.

[paul514]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

I don’t think anyone disagrees with this idea in principle. 

The first problem is whether an all white board room actually is the most talented?

But the second, and perhaps an even more complicated question, could be ‘even if an all white board is the most talented what is going on that makes that group more talented than a board that better represents society?’

Could something be done in society to have the ‘most talented board’ also be one that better represents all groups in society? 

They are not always easy questions to answer. 

No idea if an all white board was or wasn’t.

I wouldn’t question it unless I wasn’t white AND wanted to be on the board.

it simply wouldn’t matter who was on a board to me unless it wasn’t performing well.

If NSWE we’re clueless we wouldn’t care Naseef is brown just that he was doing a crap job.