Dean Smith

[penguin]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Do we really value short term survival (not even guaranteed) over a long term strategy? Let's just cycle through outdated firefighter managers to simply keep us in the league and sign a mish mash of their own players leaving a weak unbalanced squad that eventually does drop after circling the drain for a couple of years. I feel like I've seen this story play out before, can't put my finger on where.

I forgive David O'Leary now to be honest, he was actually right on the money. If we can't give a Villa fan who got us promoted against all odds, playing the best football we've seen at Villa Park for decades time to try to turn this around, I really do despair. We really would be doing a Fulham.

Which is what?

If we were clearly working toward something and there was a light at the end of the tunnel I'd be fine with giving Smith more time. But if anything we are looking more and more clueless every week and I have no idea what our game plan is. 

And why is the other option to Smith an outdated fighter? You need the right man at the helm to execute a successful long term strategy.

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Do we really value short term survival (not even guaranteed) over a long term strategy? Let's just cycle through outdated firefighter managers to simply keep us in the league and sign a mish mash of their own players leaving a weak unbalanced squad that eventually does drop after circling the drain for a couple of years. I feel like I've seen this story play out before, can't put my finger on where.

I forgive David O'Leary now to be honest, he was actually right on the money. If we can't give a Villa fan who got us promoted against all odds, playing the best football we've seen at Villa Park for decades time to try to turn this around, I really do despair. We really would be doing a Fulham.

IMO long term strategys don't exist in football - (and if they do its always at a struggling club!!!!!!) 

Who is our best signing this summer ? - Heaton ? - is he long term ? - no - a few more like him in defence, midfield attack - we could stay up - it wouldn't be a long term strategy - but lets concentrate on winning a few of the next 10 games - we can worry about 2024 in due course.

[villalad21]

Just now, jim said:

What happens to the long term vision when we lose all our better players? Go again and yet another season in transition?

I’d much rather stay in the division and build from there rather than the blind hope if sticking with stubborn smith and his rigid tactics.

We all remember how hard it was getting back into this league.

Without Jack there is no way we would  got promoted last season.

Without him i fear we might stay in the Championship for many, many years.

[Zatman]

 

Just now, villalad21 said:

We all remember how hard it was getting back into this league.

Without Jack there is no way we would  got promoted last season.

Without him i fear we might stay in the Championship for many, many years.

The way some of our arrogant fans behave we probably deserve to be in Championship with Leeds

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Just heard his interview blaming everything else, shouldn't have been a pen, Grealish was fouled, players were not good enough. I personally think the dressing room has gone, he ain't coming back from this. Even says Grealish kept playing when Targett had a hamstring injury, as good as blaming Jack for the goal. You can't start blaming your captain or main player in public, we'll be lucky to keep him for the rest of the season after that comment. I think he's done, he might have the Burnley game, if he is lucky.

Still got full respect for him getting us up from the Championship, but that was his level, his inexperience is showing in the prem.  Always said it was much to early to take the step up especially to AVFC  and it shows. Doubt he will get another job at this level.

not many managers come back from this - If DS does it will be via the championship.

[danceoftheshamen]

It's gone stale hasn't it.

Of course we are missing Mings & McGinn & clearly need a few in Jan but we are losing way to many games now and our form is shocking. We should at least be getting a few draws but to lose 2 out of 3 against the bottom 3 is unforgivable. It's not like we even played well in any of them.

[Chindie]

Allardyce would crawl through molten glass and used needles to manage a pub league team if it paid for a new house. If Purslow rang he'd be at Villa Park before Purslow had finished saying hello.

Whether that's a good thing or not is a matter of perspective.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Chindie

[sne]

Will forever be grateful for the miracle he performed last season in getting us promoted, but the PL might be a year or 2 too early for him.

All the teams we face seem better prepared and more cohesive and dynamic than we do.

It was always going to be an uphill struggle but it should not look this bad this far into the season.

He and the team look like they've lost faith in their ability. It's by this point hard to spot what we are even trying to do.

We are likely going down no matter what. So the question for the board is do they persist with something clearly not working and hope we can repeat promotion next season?

Or do they act and try to protect their investment this season?

Miracles do happen, we should know. But I see no chance of Smith keeping us up sadly.

[cbr600rr]

Took the club as far as he can , thanks dean but the basic organisation is non present , quality is another question , 

said in previous postes but if you do the same things you get the same results ! 
 

you could wright the script to the Watford game before Xmas day,we knew Troy was going to score , it’s simply not good enough from the whole club & Smith is at the front of it, 

[dudevillaisnice]

Tired of the same excuses each week and nothing changing meanwhile clubs around us are picking up points even against the so called big teams. 

[Keyblade]

7 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Get this but not convinced Smith is the one to build the long term strategy. He's not coaching the football we'd expect, no signs of that at all. He just looks out of his depth. If we were in this position and playing the right kind of football then I'd be more sympathetic to this view.

It's looking like that right now but it's still early days. I just can't take the people suggesting Allardyce or Pulis seriously. If we sack Smith we should be bringing in someone who can slot straight into our setup and continue on the path laid out by the hierarchy, not bringing in has beens that might scrape us to safety but will do more long term damage than benefit.

[El-Reacho]

The only case for keeping Smith on now is that he was able to break us out of a poor run at the start of this year - where we were almost as rudderless as this (relative to the league we were in). If we can get a Mings type signing in in January (likely a striker this time) - maybe we can put a run together just enough to get us out of it. He's a streaky manager.

[useless]

I hate to break it to people but Allardyce is actually a good manager and would probably be the best manager we've had since O'Neill, and I don't particulary want Allardyce, he's just nowhere near as bad as people are making out, by far.

[villanmac]

Unbelievably naïve of him to basically go into the season with only two strikers and I'd say borderline arrogant to have only brought in the type of players he has. Ok, no-one wants a Pulis or Allardyce approach but the side is ridiculously lacking in pace and physicality. We have been absolutely rag-dolled in this league at times and It's like he just had an attitude that he was this top coach who would just be able to outplay and pass around teams in the premier-league which is ridiculous as a newly promoted team going into the most physical league in the world.

At what point during the 140 mill spend does someone point out in addition to the centre halves, we might actually need a few players capable of defending a high ball into the box from corners and freekicks? It's a tough league and for me he has bought a bunch of fannys in the most part who get knocked over by a gust of wind.

 

[danceoftheshamen]

I don't know why we don't put in a cheeky bid to try & get Eddie Howe from Bournemouth. Not only would it be the right kid of guy but it would likely relegate Bournemouth too thus giving us a glimmer of surviving

[hippo]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

It's looking like that right now but it's still early days. I just can't take the people suggesting Allardyce or Pulis seriously. If we sack Smith we should be bringing in someone who can slot straight into our setup and continue on the path laid out by the hierarchy, not bringing in has beens that might scrape us to safety but will do more long term damage than benefit.

Yeah we preserve that set up !  

[Laughable Chimp]

The thing is, we're not really not that adrift from safety. The reason why it feels like we're going down is because our performances have been so abject but we really aren't that far from safety in terms of points. That new manager bounce by itself might get us out of the bottom 3 and after that, if that manager can just keep us scraping points, I can see us surviving.

So, I disagree that we're a shoe in for being relegated with or without Smith. There's still time, especially with the Jan transfer window. But I do think that Smith will bring us down and any signing he makes will just paper over the cracks. There simply hasn't been any indication at any point in his career that he has shown he can instill the defensive sturdiness needed to scrape points and without our attacking players playing well, we now look completely out of our depth in this league.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, villanmac said:

Unbelievably naïve of him to basically go into the season with only two strikers and I'd say borderline arrogant to have only brought in the type of players he has. Ok, no-one wants a Pulis or Allardyce approach but the side is ridiculously lacking in pace and physicality. We have been absolutely rag-dolled in this league at times and It's like he just had an attitude that he was this top coach who would just be able to outplay and pass around teams in the premier-league which is ridiculous as a newly promoted team going into the most physical league in the world.

At what point during the 140 mill spend does someone point out in addition to the centre halves, we might actually need a few players capable of defending a high ball into the box from corners and freekicks? It's a tough league and for me he has bought a bunch of fannys in the most part who get knocked over by a gust of wind.

 

I don't believe Smith has the power with transfers that some previous managers have. 

[Okonokos]

14 minutes ago, Genie said:

What’s the long term vision? Stick with Smith, we go down. “Maybe” he gets us back up, then what?

15 minutes ago, dudevillaisnice said:

What does this long term plan and vision consist of? Grealish is going at the end of the season and you can be damn sure other players are on to the agent about now trying to get out of here sharpish. It looks bleak no matter what way you look at it. 

The long term vision is still the same as it was when the new owners came in and when Smith took over. To play good football, buy and develop young players and move us back up into the top half of the premier league. A year ago we were a million miles off that and Smith has done well to get this far so quickly. Rome wasn't built in a day. It will take time, even if we take a backwards step then so be it. In the modern game, a club has to have a vision and stick to it. All of the small clubs that have done well recently have had that. The ones who have been a bit more hasty haven't done so well.

In the summer when we signed all these players and everyone on here was raving about what an amazing window it was. Now after we've had our first bad month or so of the season we all want him out and have forgotten about our vision. Up to and including the Man Utd game we had played well in all but 2 games. Since then we've lost 2 of our top 3 players to injury, our form was bound to dip.

A short term solution in sacking a manager and replacing him with a fat old dinosaur is not a way to approach a long term project. What is the point in a club having a vision if they just sack it off at the first chance. You have a vision and project and you commit to it, even if you take a backwards step.

You don't do the exact opposite of that and go for another dinosaur. They may as well have kept Bruce.

If we do have to get rid of Smith then we HAVE to go for a manger that fits into our vision, not someone who is the polar opposite like Allardyce. What would our vision be then, bring in a load of old timers who can "do a job" on 5 year contracts and end up like we were when we went down. No thanks, I'd rather go down with Smith and start again.

[Blasterpocket68]

5 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Do we really value short term survival (not even guaranteed) over a long term strategy? Let's just cycle through outdated firefighter managers to simply keep us in the league and sign a mish mash of their own players leaving a weak unbalanced squad that eventually does drop after circling the drain for a couple of years. I feel like I've seen this story play out before, can't put my finger on where.

I forgive David O'Leary now to be honest, he was actually right on the money. If we can't give a Villa fan who got us promoted against all odds, playing the best football we've seen at Villa Park for decades time to try to turn this around, I really do despair. We really would be doing a Fulham.

whats the strategy?

same thing week in week out! I'm all for giving DS time if we can see some improvement. This has been coming for weeks , Norwich outplayed us FFS. We deploy the same tatics week in week out! It simply cant continue if we want any chance of survival . ( That has to be our first strategy)  If we continue in the same vane of nice old DS were relegated full stop!

I'm not for knee jerk reactions but something has to change NOW. If  (and its a big if given the players we have at our disposal) we can attract a fire fighter manager that keeps us in the League surly that's a good strategy to want for our club rather than another 2-3 years adrift in the championship where the gap between us and the premiership mid table teams grows even further  .