New Manager : 2017

[pacbuddies]

15 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Am I allowed to ask why? 

If you have to ask why then 

Edited February 18, 2017 by pacbuddies

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

And he deserves "time" for obvious reasons.

Actually, I would say he deserves loyalty is more accurate.

[sheepyvillian]

On 17/02/2017 at 21:01, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

That's quite a blanket statement, and wrong to shove everyone into 1 category IMO.

Not every fan who want's Bruce out is going to be noisy, or disruptive.

Some fans are just genuinely concerned and disappointed.

Whereas some fans are just unrealistic and hooligans in general.

I have been floating on the fence, and I read all the posts with valid arguments from both sides.

I understand the arguments about the need for continuity, and stability etc, and I am sure it is a scenario all of us would much rather be in ideally.

However some of us don't see ANY signs of encouragement that "continuity" in this case will be the best thing.

There are some fundamental basics which quite frankly have been horrible. (Which I don't need to go into as many already have)

I m almost certain every naysayer would ultimately love to be proven wrong about their "Bruce out" view if it eventually yielded success for Aston Villa.

Wonderfully put, yardman .

 

[blandy]

On 17/02/2017 at 21:19, DCJonah said:

I keep reading Bruce is experienced in the championship. And yes that's true. But has he any experience at being successful with the challenge that now faces him?

We need stability, but that stability has to be given to the right man and the right kind of manager. When Bruce was appointed I thought we were the right club for a manager like Bruce to be given time with. But I was wrong, we are not that club. We require more than just an experienced man who can organise and motivate the team. We need someone to come and build an identity, a style, through coaching and tactics and build something from the ground up. I don't think Steve Bruce is that man. 

If we give Bruce more time I think we're deluding ourselves into thinking we're a club that we just aren't. 

Next year is so massive in terms of the long term picture for this club. It could be our wasted opportunity by persisting with a decent manager not suited to the task at hand. 

That's a good post and almost the exact opposite of my thinking, then and now.  When you now say "We require more than just an experienced man who can organise and motivate the team. We need someone to come and build an identity, a style, through coaching and tactics and build something from the ground up. I don't think Steve Bruce is that man."  that is pretty much what I thought before and at the time we appointed him, and in many ways I still feel the same, but ......

but, we've been going through managers at a rate of about 2 or 3 a season. That is a guaranteed way to fail. Given that he's now here, given that he's just brought in a bunch of players and shipped out a number of others to rebuild the squad, and given that he's actually got most of his buy/ sell choices right, I think that he has to be given time, now.

i have major reservations about Bruce, about how he managed at Sunderland, another "big club" with fans desperate for their team to stop being a joke. I don't much like his style of football and he seems to be making unfathomable team selections. He looks like he's floundering and the coaching of the side looks poor. So there's a long list of reasons to get rid....

but, at some point you have to stop throwing the toys out of the pram, you have to just have some resolution, some grit and just ride it out. His record suggests he's not a charlatan or a chancer and I think that keeping him here for a while longer is the lesser of two evils, really.

We were never ever going to go up this season, there was too much of a car crash, too many bad eggs, too many weak players, no credible "system" behind the first team. The club had been hollowed out. To put it all right will take time, and continuous upheaval will mean it would take longer.

[DCJonah]

Some good points. Where you think continuous upheaval will make our rebuilding process take longer, I'd argue that time and stability with the wrong man would be worse.

I'm desperate for a manager to be here for years and build something but I strongly believe in changing until you find the man worthy of it. Promotion this year was a pipe dream but I've seen little from Bruce to convince me more time will result in the positive change we need.

Firstly, we need to build an identity and style from within the club and managers should be hired to work to that plan, not come in and re-invent it. I thought we'd be getting this with steve round but it's not looking like it. When you think of the number of players we've signed in the last 2 years who now play football elsewhere it's an embarrassment. 

I don't believe Bruce is up to the challenge and I really think we should be looking elsewhere at this point. I wouldn't interview or shortlist any managers who want to come in and sign their own team. We need someone to come in, work with a group of proven championship players and maybe add 2 or 3 more in the summer. They need to work to the identity, we as a club want to be, and if it doesn't work out we bring the next guy in to follow the same plan. 

No more huge changes in the squad. No more completely different ideas and styles every time we employ a new man. 

It's a huge task but just sticking with Bruce because of what he's done with previous clubs is the wrong answer for me, and I truly believe it will set us back years when you think of the financial consequences of staying in this league another season will have.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

We're lurching from one managerial style to another again. You can guarantee that the next man will be totally different from Bruce who was totally different in his approach to RDM.

This has to stop.

Xia and co need a plan/vision as to what the 'Villa way' should be and recruit people to that style; and not lurch from different managerial styles to another to another like we've been doing in the past. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[DaveAV1]

20 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

We're lurching from one managerial style to another again. You can guarantee that the next man will be totally different from Bruce who was totally different in his approach to RDM.

This has to stop.

Xia and co need a plan/vision as to what the 'Villa way' should be and recruit people to that style; and not lurch from different managerial styles to another to another like we've been doing in the past. 

I thought that was the plan when Steve Round came in. Perhaps the last managerial change came a little early for him, I don't think appointing Bruce was ever the long term plan. The Doc said as much soon after Bruce was appointed. 

With that in mind, I'd have hoped that behind the scenes medium and long term plans were being put in place. That should obviously include identifying a short list of potential managers that would be able to impose a style of play that the board desire. All future managers should be able to fit in with that plan, like at Southampton. 

So I believe that there are now 2 and a half basic plans.

1 is to see out the season with Bruce unless relegation becomes a serious worry, which they may think it already is. Then appoint their chosen manager for the task ahead. 

1.5 the danger of relegation is so great they have to act and get a temporary arse kicker in. 

2 the chosen one is gettable now and the trigger is pulled. 

Knowing Villa it's probably none of the above!!

[Mjvilla]

Well, the bielsa dream is over and done with. We will have to try the ancelloti dream instead then!! 

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

1 hour ago, Mjvilla said:

Well, the bielsa dream is over and done with. We will have to try the ancelloti dream instead then!! 

I read somewhere that Zeman will only retire when he dies, worth a go I reckon. Would be some culture shock for the fans and players I suppose.

Would tick most boxes:

• Would make watching Villa entertaining.
• Would set out to play football in a certain way and stick to it.
• Would improve players no end e.g. Verratti, Insigne, etc
• Would get players ultra fit.
• Has to be attainable, he regularly takes on teams in lower divisions and I'm guessing would like to prove himself in England.
• The defending can't get any more shambolic thus negating the one weakness in his sides.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Kuwabatake Sanjuro

[romavillan]

2 hours ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said:

I read somewhere that Zeman will only retire when he dies, worth a go I reckon. Would be some culture shock for the fans and players I suppose.

Would tick most boxes:

• Would make watching Villa entertaining.
• Would set out to play football in a certain way and stick to it.
• Would improve players no end e.g. Verratti, Insigne, etc
• Would get players ultra fit.
• Has to be attainable, he regularly takes on teams in lower divisions and I'm guessing would like to prove himself in England.
• The defending can't get any more shambolic thus negating the one weakness in his sides.

Going to Pescara, too old. Love Zeman, but I don't think he'd like the climate, or the football culture in the UK. He is an awesome coach though, if we coudl find the "next" Zeman we would be laughing. Bring through a core of young players and get us promoted playing nice football, stuff of dreams at the mo.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

We're lurching from one managerial style to another again. You can guarantee that the next man will be totally different from Bruce who was totally different in his approach to RDM.

This has to stop.

Xia and co need a plan/vision as to what the 'Villa way' should be and recruit people to that style; and not lurch from different managerial styles to another to another like we've been doing in the past. 

This is pretty much the agenda that was set out for Round, however if I remember correctly they said they wanted to secure promotion first before pressing full steam ahead with the model 100 percent.

[romavillan]

Yeah the continuity has to come from a technical/sporting director and he has to oversee both acquisitions that fit to the model and that it's applied to all levels of the club. A player moving from U19 to U23 shoudl be able to slot right into the team in the same role and know what all the others around him are going to be doing seasmlessly. Same for the step from U23 to first team. That sort of shit takes years though, we hopefully have started down that road. It's not totally compatible with the traditional role of "manager" in in the UK though as it assumes at least collaboration over player's coming in and out, as well as playing style etc. I'm all for it myself, head coach rather than manager, who you fire if he can't implement the vision or if he loses the dressing room or whatever. The continuity then comes from the technical director, not the manager.

[TRO]

On 2/17/2017 at 06:26, KSV said:

Its such a lose lose situation. We cant have another manager that comes in and doesnt rate the squad and wants to bring his own again. 

However, if Bruce is dire.. it doesnt leave us with many options. Hes been there and done that..  if anyone deserves a longer go at it.. its probably him. 

We just need to pray he scrapes through this season and we stay up. Give him the off season and go again. Maybe bring in better coaches.. better goalkeeper and CB. Sell a few of the awful players. Start again next season. 

Risk is him staying and we go down. Unlikely but we said that last year. 

its not the coaches ......the majority now are good players.....its the gelling in to a team thats not worked yet.

It takes time and a few coming back from injury may just be the different types to help that process.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

We're lurching from one managerial style to another again. You can guarantee that the next man will be totally different from Bruce who was totally different in his approach to RDM.

This has to stop.

Xia and co need a plan/vision as to what the 'Villa way' should be and recruit people to that style; and not lurch from different managerial styles to another to another like we've been doing in the past. 

The problem is ......they all may have a idea of what that style is and it may be exactly want we want......but when you are trying to put right all the wrongs it may not be as easy as it sounds.

You can't just go out and start playing the style you want from the off.....you have to win the ugly side of the game first before you can impose yourself.....we haven't done that yet.

[DCJonah]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

its not the coaches ......the majority now are good players.....its the gelling in to a team thats not worked yet.

It takes time and a few coming back from injury may just be the different types to help that process.

Can't agree. 

New players, who are proven at the level they're at, needing time to gel should not result in some of the worst form by any professional team in 2017. 

That's more than just needing time to gel. 

[Dave J]

5 hours ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

We're lurching from one managerial style to another again. You can guarantee that the next man will be totally different from Bruce who was totally different in his approach to RDM.

This has to stop.

Xia and co need a plan/vision as to what the 'Villa way' should be and recruit people to that style; and not lurch from different managerial styles to another to another like we've been doing in the past. 

I agree with you- but should not " the villa way " be engineered by someone with connections to the club? Not since Brian or Big Ron and GT second time around have I truly felt a strong connection to the man in charge.

i can't see many ex- villans out there managing and/or coaching but surely there must be some? I did mention Platt alongside an older wise owl - only for him to be looked upon as a dinosaur ???.

i'm sure Platty has travelled the globe in search of a footballing education so I'm certain he must have picked up plenty of knowledge along the way?

Could Gareth Barry be tempted into a player manager role ? Once again with an old sage alongside him- I feel that either of these two would be able to provide the villa identity we seek and build from the bottom upwards in a sustainable way as opposed to the quick fix  that to date is not working!

[steven123]

Bring in Owen coyle

[theboyangel]

2 minutes ago, steven123 said:

Bring in Owen coyle

To help the wash the kit? 

[sne]

Zeman back at Pescara, they won 5 - 0 at home against Genoa 

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

its not the coaches ......the majority now are good players.....its the gelling in to a team thats not worked yet.

It takes time and a few coming back from injury may just be the different types to help that process.

If it was just gelling TRO then surely we'd see some attempts to play a certain way and some sort of progress, even if it were slow progress. But we play different formations and chop and change players game by game. Perhaps there is a plan, but I'm afraid I can't see what it is. Talk of Richards coming back just adds to a sense of floundering desperation. It's a bit like justice, it can't just be done, it has to be seen to be done.