New Manager : 2017

[Troglodyte]

8 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Stability...hearing that just reminds me of Mourinho's return to Chelsea, it's the one word he kept repeating over and over again upon his appointment...look how that turned out...I don't think fans are too unhappy with Conte...

Sometimes striving for success requires a certain degree of conviction & ruthlessness...

We aren't Chelsea.  We're in a completely different situation in every way.  And we aren't going to bring in anyone even remotely similar to Antonio Conte if Bruce goes.  We won't even get someone with the same haircut.

I'm not saying you should just stick with managers at all times for the sake of stability, but being 'ruthless' is hardly a proven way to bring about a change in fortunes.  Referring to Conte as an example is pointless.

 

8 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Everyone would love "stability" but what does that actually mean, in a practical sense? I, and I'm sure many others, would love for there to be stability but in the sense that we produce consistent performances, have a consistent playing style & system and consistently get results. That's the kind of stability I would like and I would be more than happy for the right management team to be in place that would be worthy of the time to make a start on and produce that stability and have a long and stable tenure. A team that would at least provide some shred of encouragement and enthusiasm that has been missing for an age...

Stability in a practical sense means allowing time for the new players we've signed to adjust to the club.  They'll need to build up some confidence, relationships and a sense of their role in the side.  This takes time, especially when you've brought in the number of players we have.  Yes we could bring in a new management team to get them playing in their style, but again that's a risk.  This is especially the case when you consider the options we have of bringing in.  Who do you think we could realistically hire, who you can be sure will get these players settled and playing as a cohesive unit?  They will begin to do so over time anyway under a competent manager, and I don't think anyone can seriously say - despite his failings - that Bruce is totally incompetent as a manager.

 

8 hours ago, Jas10 said:

The stability I do not want is, well, what's happening now really. The stability of this season has been consistently shit performances, consistently shit results and a consistent lack of a playing style & system.

And this is the problem.  Too many fans are demanding stability right now.  It doesn't work like that.  That's why time is needed.

If the side still aren't looking better by the end of April, then I'd totally understand if we got rid of Bruce.  But right now, the season's a write-off anyway, we aren't going to be able to attract anyone decent to make it worth getting rid of Bruce, so we might as well give the bloke some time.

 

8 hours ago, Jas10 said:

I don't see how anyone can, with any certainty, state or fully believe that performances and results will improve and that we will ever actually look like getting a win at this rate. The decline is alarming and it has just been a constant stream of low points, with the complete absence of any high points, under Bruce.

End it now before it's too late, what a disaster...

I can't state it with any certainty, but I would be shocked if performances and results don't improve.  Again, if they haven't by the end of April then fair enough, but I'll be very surprised if we're still on the same trajectory then.

What's wrong with Villa runs much, much deeper than the manager.  But we are in the process of turning things around.  Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot more time than most people would like.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Troglodyte

[Dante_Lockhart]

On 11/02/2017 at 21:19, maqroll said:

Would be amazing to see him on the sideline shouting instructions to the players, flinging cheeseburgers into the crowd every now and again, squaring up to the 4th official..

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'm on the fence now to be honest ffs.

Part of me even wonders if we would do well to bring in an experienced Assistant Manager/Coach from one of the top clubs in Europe who play good football and have a great philosophy etc?

They will have all the technical knowledge, know how to deal with egos and thrive in the opportunity to begin their own management legacy.

Aside from that, I have always wanted AVB for obvious immature reasons.

I think keep Bruce for a couple more games tops if there is no turnaround or signs of it.

Isn't that just bringing a new man in but paying Bruce at the same time to do nothing?

I do like the AVB idea, for all the same obvious immature reasons 

[weedman]

23 minutes ago, Troglodyte said:

We aren't Chelsea.  We're in a completely different situation in every way.  And we aren't going to bring in anyone even remotely similar to Antonio Conte if Bruce goes.  We won't even get someone with the same haircut.

I'm not saying you should just stick with managers at all times for the sake of stability, but being 'ruthless' is hardly a proven way to bring about a change in fortunes.  Referring to Conte as an example is pointless.

 

Stability in a practical sense means allowing time for the new players we've signed to adjust to the club.  They'll need to build up some confidence, relationships and a sense of their role in the side.  This takes time, especially when you've brought in the number of players we have.  Yes we could bring in a new management team to get them playing in their style, but again that's a risk.  This is especially the case when you consider the options we have of bringing in.  Who do you think we could realistically hire, who you can be sure will get these players settled and playing as a cohesive unit?  They will begin to do so over time anyway under a competent manager, and I don't think anyone can seriously say - despite his failings - that Bruce is totally incompetent as a manager.

 

And this is the problem.  Too many fans are demanding stability right now.  It doesn't work like that.  That's why time is needed.

If the side still aren't looking better by the end of April, then I'd totally understand if we got rid of Bruce.  But right now, the season's a write-off anyway, we aren't going to be able to attract anyone decent to make it worth getting rid of Bruce, so we might as well give the bloke some time.

 

I can't state it with any certainty, but I would be shocked if performances and results don't improve.  Again, if they haven't by the end of April then fair enough, but I'll be very surprised if we're still on the same trajectory then.

What's wrong with Villa runs much, much deeper than the manager.  But we are in the process of turning things around.  Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot more time than most people would like.

This is an excellent post and fully sums up how I feel. People are talking about Bruce as if he's some unknown bloke who's never managed before, he's not. He is clearly a competent and successful manager especially at this level. 

 

I've also noticed a lot that people seem to want us to keep chopping and changing managers every 5 mins until it works, and then have stability after that. It doesn't work like that, for a club to be stable things have to stay the same for a while and that means sticking it out when things are pretty shit - like now, it's the only way to break the cycle we're in and like the poster above said, I'd be shocked if nothings improved towards the end of the season but if that's the case then Bruce will have to go really

[Jas10]

44 minutes ago, Troglodyte said:

We aren't Chelsea.  We're in a completely different situation in every way.  And we aren't going to bring in anyone even remotely similar to Antonio Conte if Bruce goes.  We won't even get someone with the same haircut.

I'm not saying you should just stick with managers at all times for the sake of stability, but being 'ruthless' is hardly a proven way to bring about a change in fortunes.  Referring to Conte as an example is pointless.

 

Stability in a practical sense means allowing time for the new players we've signed to adjust to the club.  They'll need to build up some confidence, relationships and a sense of their role in the side.  This takes time, especially when you've brought in the number of players we have.  Yes we could bring in a new management team to get them playing in their style, but again that's a risk.  This is especially the case when you consider the options we have of bringing in.  Who do you think we could realistically hire, who you can be sure will get these players settled and playing as a cohesive unit?  They will begin to do so over time anyway under a competent manager, and I don't think anyone can seriously say - despite his failings - that Bruce is totally incompetent as a manager.

 

And this is the problem.  Too many fans are demanding stability right now.  It doesn't work like that.  That's why time is needed.

If the side still aren't looking better by the end of April, then I'd totally understand if we got rid of Bruce.  But right now, the season's a write-off anyway, we aren't going to be able to attract anyone decent to make it worth getting rid of Bruce, so we might as well give the bloke some time.

 

I can't state it with any certainty, but I would be shocked if performances and results don't improve.  Again, if they haven't by the end of April then fair enough, but I'll be very surprised if we're still on the same trajectory then.

What's wrong with Villa runs much, much deeper than the manager.  But we are in the process of turning things around.  Unfortunately, it's going to take a lot more time than most people would like.

I never said we were Chelsea or anything like them, I was just reminded of Mourinho's appointment by the constant use of the word stability (he said it a lot at the time)...
The relevance of that would be that sticking with a manager and being patient doesn't always work, often if a change isn't made then the decline continues.

I have never personally said that Bruce is an incompetent manager (though he's certainly appearing like one now) and not been abusive or insulting about him. It's just clearly not working and it just isn't the right fit. Nothing suggests otherwise.

I realise that the problems have run deeper than just the manager (in the past anyway) but we have uprooted, discarded and replaced a lot of shit this season so certain reasoning or excuses don't hold as much value now. Again, we just need to find the right managerial and coaching team that have a clear vision and the necessary conviction to at least improve us. I would certainly be willing to give time to someone who could get better, more encouraging performances out of the players and stick to a style and system that would at least get the odd result. At least the odd win for crying out loud!!! Constantly losing games, constantly being outplayed and utterly embarrassed is simply unacceptable - I don't know how anyone can put up with this for our club, this is Aston Villa. We need to get out of this mediocrity!

How long do you want to wait? When we're in the bottom 3?!

There are no guarantees but if you never take action or are too afraid of taking a risk, you inevitably fail...

I'm getting quite tired of repeating myself, and repeating what others have written too, but again, there simply are no signs of things improving or turning around and there has been enough time to see whether that would happen. We haven't even come close to even looking like winning a game for ages now and the run of terrible performances, negative "tactics", lack of any consistent style or system etc. etc. is horrendous and just ongoing.

You have to take action when things get so bad, not just sit back and allow it to get worse and endanger yourself...

Nuff said (for now)

Edited February 16, 2017 by Jas10

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

33 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Isn't that just bringing a new man in but paying Bruce at the same time to do nothing?

I do like the AVB idea, for all the same obvious immature reasons 

No, I meant bring one of them in in as Manager.

[DaveAV1]

21 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

No, I meant bring one of them in in as Manager.

Ah sorry JV. I must read people's quotes properly before I put my oar in. I blame the stress!

[srsmithusa]

If you think keeping Bruce is good for stability, then logically, you must want him out because he is constantly slicing and dicing the formation and line-up,  He is preventing the one positive keeping him supposedly brings.   

Bruce out

[mykeyb]

14 hours ago, astonaidan said:

Sometimes it seems that people just want British just for the sake of it, thats why Westwood got away with being muck for so long. 

Swap British for Foreign in the first bit and I would have posted exactly that.

[Dave J]

23 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

David Platt and Glenn Hoddle? And people think Bruce is a dinosaur. 

As for Howe, why the hell would he come, when he is touted for bigger things.

Boy if you think Hoddle and Platt are Dinosaurs compared to Bruce - then all I have to say to you is wow!  As for Howe I totally agree with you - doesn't mean I would not like him here 

[peterms]

9 hours ago, weedman said:

People are talking about Bruce as if he's some unknown bloke who's never managed before, he's not. He is clearly a competent and successful manager especially at this level.

I've also noticed a lot that people seem to want us to keep chopping and changing managers every 5 mins until it works, and then have stability after that.

Well yes, that would be a strange approach, and not one that you'd think would work.

And yet, when the owner announced that the aim was to be in the top five clubs in the world by Tuesday week or some such nonsense, and then appointed a manager whose comfort zone was the second division, did it not seem certain that they also would have to plan to replace him sharpish?  Thereby adopting exactly that chopping and changing approach.

[Dave J]

9 hours ago, weedman said:

This is an excellent post and fully sums up how I feel. People are talking about Bruce as if he's some unknown bloke who's never managed before, he's not. He is clearly a competent and successful manager especially at this level. 

 

I've also noticed a lot that people seem to want us to keep chopping and changing managers every 5 mins until it works, and then have stability after that. It doesn't work like that, for a club to be stable things have to stay the same for a while and that means sticking it out when things are pretty shit - like now, it's the only way to break the cycle we're in and like the poster above said, I'd be shocked if nothings improved towards the end of the season but if that's the case then Bruce will have to go really

I hear what you say and actually agree with you - my issue with Bruce and this was from the get go is that I don't believe he can take us where we all want to be in five years. People say to me don't worry about this just get promoted and sack him the moment things become difficult. NO I don't agree with this and despite not liking Bruce I think  this is unfair - just my opinion. I wanted a manager with vision and someone who can place us on an upward and trajectory over a substantial time frame and provide hope that we are heading back to where most of us believe we should be - top six minimum year in year out and challenging on both cup fronts is the very least we should expect IMO 

[villan_007]

On 13/02/2017 at 02:55, Dr_Pangloss said:

Bruce is a dinosaur with out of date ideas tactically and looks like someone who doesn't really have the capacity to motivate his players. We need someone progressive, who understands that with our players at this level we should be attacking, pressing high and keeping the ball better.

Out of curiosity how did a dinosaur with outdated tactics get promoted last season?

Didi his tactics go out of date a few months ago?

[villan_007]

Fans wanting Bruce out are part of the problem of this club.

[Mic09]

33 minutes ago, villan_007 said:

Fans wanting Bruce out are part of the problem of this club.

what if he loses the next 3 games?

Would this prove that you were wrong when you posted these words?

And would it mean that the fans calling for his head were right?

[KSV]

Its such a lose lose situation. We cant have another manager that comes in and doesnt rate the squad and wants to bring his own again. 

However, if Bruce is dire.. it doesnt leave us with many options. Hes been there and done that..  if anyone deserves a longer go at it.. its probably him. 

We just need to pray he scrapes through this season and we stay up. Give him the off season and go again. Maybe bring in better coaches.. better goalkeeper and CB. Sell a few of the awful players. Start again next season. 

Risk is him staying and we go down. Unlikely but we said that last year. 

[AJ]

2 hours ago, villan_007 said:

Fans wanting Bruce out are part of the problem of this club.

if any at all, a small part of the problem.

Losing games that we shouldn't or cant afford to lose is a major part of the problem.

[tomav84]

10 hours ago, Dave J said:

Boy if you think Hoddle and Platt are Dinosaurs compared to Bruce - then all I have to say to you is wow!  As for Howe I totally agree with you - doesn't mean I would not like him here 

not that howe would dream of coming to villa, but i believe he is one of those managers that will only be successful at one club. he didn't do brilliantly at burnley

[Dave J]

11 hours ago, tomav84 said:

not that howe would dream of coming to villa, but i believe he is one of those managers that will only be successful at one club. he didn't do brilliantly at burnley

No you're quite right - however I think his education has continued well since this period in his career and I feel that he would be most sought after should he again leave Bournemouth.

[sheepyvillian]

22 hours ago, Dave J said:

Boy if you think Hoddle and Platt are Dinosaurs compared to Bruce - then all I have to say to you is wow!  As for Howe I totally agree with you - doesn't mean I would not like him here 

With our financial clout, I'd take Hoddle now . Imo he's one of the best British coaches out there. England played the best football I've seen in my lifetime, under him .