Sam Johnstone

[AVFCDAN]

37 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Have to say alot better than gollini amd bunn. If we ca  get him for 2-3mil id take him. Let bunn go and get Adrian  on a free

Not sure that is true to be honest, I didn't think he did a lot wrong and looked equally as good as Johnstone has done.

Unless his head wasn't in the midlands I don't understand why he wasn't allowed to complete a full season personally.

[hippo]

1 hour ago, AVFCDAN said:

Not sure that is true to be honest, I didn't think he did a lot wrong and looked equally as good as Johnstone has done.

Unless his head wasn't in the midlands I don't understand why he wasn't allowed to complete a full season personally.

Neither was anywhere near good enough. Gollini IMO looked to have more potential (maybe) - but to be honest for £3 -4m  we could and should get a much better keeper.

Edited May 8, 2017 by hippo

[Demitri_C]

15 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said:

Not sure that is true to be honest, I didn't think he did a lot wrong and looked equally as good as Johnstone has done.

Unless his head wasn't in the midlands I don't understand why he wasn't allowed to complete a full season personally.

Gollini made a number of huge errors that cost us greatly, Johnstone has grown as season has gone on. Gollini cant even get in as number one at the italian club he is at 

[Stockport_Villain]

If I had a choice I would try to secure the permanent signing of Johnstone. After a slow start he has been a consistent performer which is key to this position and an asset to the team.

[Straggler]

I really don't want him to sign on a permanent deal.  He did stop some shots yesterday which is nice, but he still has that indecisive streak which is so dangerous in a keeper.  It is the brain freeze that I have seen in almost every game (including yesterday) when the ball looks like it is there to claim, but it is only a 60/40.  He does this little stutter step, which takes him a bit to the ball then stops and takes a step back then sort of dances about not really coming out, but not really retreating to his goal and ends up so far out of position that it hurts my soul to see where he has got to.  He does it when to my mind it is very clear that a good goalkeeper would instinctively be out like a shot and smothering the opportunity.  He was not punished for it yesterday and he has got away with it more often than it has hurt him, but it looks a big enough of a problem on its own to not want him in goal next season.

As a shot stopper he has been ok recently having been awful previously, an average of below average.  He still seems to my eye to save the shots you expect any keeper to save as a minimum and anything else on target goes in.  He also seems a little flat footed / slow to react.  I prefer my keepers to look like they strike like a viper, not like a sloth on Valium.

On crossing and dominating his box, I have him down as consistently poor.  This is for much the same reasons as above, I think he is very timid stepping off his line and when he does he tends to punch the ball regardless of pressure or situation.  He is not reassuring me that he has a calm enough head to quickly assess the situation and the danger and make any decision at all.  It is just an impression I have but I think he stays on his line not because it is the right thing to do, but because he is not sure what is best so he defaults to doing nothing which equals staying still.

Kicking and distribution is bang average.  The only time I crap myself when the ball is passed back to him if is the pass is a bit under hit and forces him to make a decision, which as I stated above just seems to freeze his mind up.  (I just looked up the highlights from yesterdays game.  The back pass from Elphick is a shocker, but he hits it from a yard or two outside the box.  The Brighton player did not get his first touch until he was almost on the six yard box.  As bad a back pass as it was Johnson managed to cover less than 2 yards towards the ball.  I can't help but feel that he should have been out and clearing that one out)

 

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Neither was anywhere near good enough. Gollini IMO looked to have more potential (maybe) - but to be honest for £304m we could and should get a much better keeper.

We should get ANY keeper for that kind of money! 

[thabucks]

Mixed about signing Johnstone. On one hand Heaton at Burnley has developed from being a Man Utd reject into a fantastic keeper a same could apply for Johnstone, on the other hand he hasn't consistently looked as good enough to persist with as an ongoing work in progress. I'm won't be gutted either waywhich I guess says a lot. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

He is a shite goalkeeper. 

[Junxs]

I personally think Gollini was better and had more potential.

Golinni made a few mistakes as did Johnstone - but Gollini made some superb saves as well. Which I can't say about Johnstone at all. At one stage we were debating if Johnstone could save anything that wasn't straight at him earlier in this thread.. He has made some saves since, but not great ones, certainly not ones where you ask yourself "how on earth did he save that?". Gollini is a better shot stopper and overall better keeper in my view.

Johnstone has gone from being complete dog turd to acceptable though, but with his loan over - I would much rather go and get a top keeper for this level than get Johnstone on loan for another season!

[sir_gary_cahill]

Gollini signed an 18 month loan deal at Atalanta in January, so we'll need a new keeper, be it Johnstone or someone else, wouldn't be surprised if it was Sarkic

[Junxs]

On the official site it states that Bruce is meeting Mourinho this week (after an initial phone call) as he's keen to bring Johnstone back next season.

Looks like another season loan is more than likely.

Really think we are missing a trick here, a proper goalkeeper can be worth their weight in gold. Like I've stated earlier in the thread, he's improved but still isn't great. He doesn't make any "wow" saves. He punches too much when a catch is easier option. For a team that doesn't create many chances and tries to nick games by the odd goal, a brilliant goalkeeper is what is required not a developing run of the mill average keeper.

[mykeyb]

If Ruddy is on a free then its a no from me for Johnstone, not good enough.

[Czechlad]

Johnstone seems like an average keeper. It's no surprise that his form picked up when we started playing worse clubs. 

If I could choose between Gollini and Johnstone, I'd choose Gollini every time. Gollini did not have the luxury of playing with Jedinak, Baker, Chester in front of him, and yet Gollini still made some ridiculous saves. Gollini had 3 errors that led directly to goals, but I'd say Elphick and Cissokho definitely played a part in those errors. 

Johnstone has had Taylor-Baker-Chester-Hutton/Bree and Jedinak playing in front of him most of the season.

Gollini had Cissokho, Elphick, Westwood, Tshibola, in front of him for most matches. 

BIG difference there in terms of ability. 

[sir_gary_cahill]

3 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

Johnstone seems like an average keeper. It's no surprise that his form picked up when we started playing worse clubs. 

If I could choose between Gollini and Johnstone, I'd choose Gollini every time. Gollini did not have the luxury of playing with Jedinak, Baker, Chester in front of him, and yet Gollini still made some ridiculous saves. Gollini had 3 errors that led directly to goals, but I'd say Elphick and Cissokho definitely played a part in those errors. 

Johnstone has had Taylor-Baker-Chester-Hutton/Bree and Jedinak playing in front of him most of the season.

Gollini had Cissokho, Elphick, Westwood, Tshibola, in front of him for most matches. 

BIG difference there in terms of ability. 

I think you make some fair points there

[AshVilla]

Hopefully Mourinho has rediculous demands for Johnstone to force us out of a deal

Fingers crossed

[tom_avfc]

14 hours ago, Czechlad said:

Johnstone seems like an average keeper. It's no surprise that his form picked up when we started playing worse clubs. 

If I could choose between Gollini and Johnstone, I'd choose Gollini every time. Gollini did not have the luxury of playing with Jedinak, Baker, Chester in front of him, and yet Gollini still made some ridiculous saves. Gollini had 3 errors that led directly to goals, but I'd say Elphick and Cissokho definitely played a part in those errors. 

Johnstone has had Taylor-Baker-Chester-Hutton/Bree and Jedinak playing in front of him most of the season.

Gollini had Cissokho, Elphick, Westwood, Tshibola, in front of him for most matches. 

BIG difference there in terms of ability. 

I disagree with almost all of this post. I don't understand the part about playing worse clubs. He had a poor first 8 or 9 games which included playing teams like Forest, Wolves and Barnsley who I wouldn't call great clubs. After that he's been pretty consistent including in games against Sheffield Wednesday, Reading and Brighton. He's got better as he's settled in imo.

Gollini played with Baker, Chester and Jedinak in the majority of games. Cissokho played in less than half of the games which Gollini played in. Hutton had played consistently since October and before that we had de laet who most would consider a better player. You've just picked the worst players that have played with Gollini and the best that have played with Johnstone. I would say that the organisation in front of Johnstone is better under Bruce than RDM but that's not really to do with the personnel and more the tactics.

I actually thought Gollini was starting to settle but I see more potential in Johnstone, the way he's played recently. My only issue is I'm not convinced we'll be able to sign Johnstone and developing players for other teams is frustrating to me. 

[Czechlad]

11 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

I disagree with almost all of this post. I don't understand the part about playing worse clubs. He had a poor first 8 or 9 games which included playing teams like Forest, Wolves and Barnsley who I wouldn't call great clubs. After that he's been pretty consistent including in games against Sheffield Wednesday, Reading and Brighton. He's got better as he's settled in imo.

Gollini played with Baker, Chester and Jedinak in the majority of games. Cissokho played in less than half of the games which Gollini played in. Hutton had played consistently since October and before that we had de laet who most would consider a better player. You've just picked the worst players that have played with Gollini and the best that have played with Johnstone. I would say that the organisation in front of Johnstone is better under Bruce than RDM but that's not really to do with the personnel and more the tactics.

I actually thought Gollini was starting to settle but I see more potential in Johnstone, the way he's played recently. My only issue is I'm not convinced we'll be able to sign Johnstone and developing players for other teams is frustrating to me. 

I really hate that I have to do this, but here we go. With Gollini in net:

Sheffield Wednesday (4th place finish) - Defense: Cissokho-Baker-Elphick-Hutton Midfield: Gardner-Westwood - Final result: 1-0 Sheffield

Rotherham (24th) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-Bacuna Midfield: Westwood-Tshibola - Final Result: 3-0 Villa

Huddersfield (5th) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-Bacuna Midfield: Westwood-Tshibola - Final Result: 1-1 

Derby (9th) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-Bacuna Midfield: Westwood-Gardner - Final Result: 0-0 

Bristol (17th) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-De Laet Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak-Gardner - Final Result: 3-1 Bristol

Nottingham (21st) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-De Laet Midfield: Westwood-Gardner - Final Result: 2-2 

Brentford (10th) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-De Laet Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak - Final Result: 1-1 

Ipswich (16th) - Defense: Chester-Elphick-Richards Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak - Final Result: 0-0 

Newcastle (1st) - Defense: Baker-Chester-Elphick Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak - Final Result: 1-1

Barnsley (14th) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-Bacuna Midfield: Jedinak-Tshibola - Final Result: 1-1 

Wolves (15th) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-Richards Midfield: Jedinak-Tshibola - Final Result: 1-1

Reading (3rd) - Defense: Cissokho-Chester-Elphick-Hutton Midfield: Gardner-Jedinak - Final Result: 2-1 Villa

Fulham (6th) - Defense: AMAVI-Chester-Elphick-Hutton Midfield: Jedinak-Gardner - Final Result: 1-0 Villa (The first game where we played a back 4 that cissokho doesn't feature)

Birmingham (19th) - Defense: Amavi-Chester-Elphick-Hutton Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak-Gardner - Final Result: 1-1 

Blackburn (22nd) - Defense: Amavi-Baker-Chester-Hutton Midfield: Jedinak-Gardner - Final Result: 2-1 Villa (First game Chester-Baker-Jedinak ever play together)

Brighton (2nd) - Defense: Amavi-Baker-Chester-Hutton Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak-Gardner - Final Result: 1-1

Cardiff (12th) - Defense: Amavi-Baker-Chester-Hutton Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak - Final Result: 3-1 Villa

Leeds (7th) - Defense: Amavi-Elphick-Chester-Hutton Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak-Gardner - Final Result: 2-0 (Elphick comes back in, and we lose for the first time in a while)

Wigan (23rd) - Defense: Amavi-Elphick-Chester-Hutton Midfield: Jedinak-Gardner - Final Result: 1-0 Villa

Norwich (8th) - Defense: Amavi-Elphick-Chester-Hutton Midfield: Westwood-Jedinak - Final Result: 1-0

 

Those are the 20 matches Gollini featured in net for us. As you can see, Cissokho started in 10 of the 20 matches Gollini started. The Elphick-Chester pairing, which notably did not work well, featured in 16 of 20 matches. Gollini also only had the likes of Westwood, Tshibola, and Gardner consistently featuring in the midfield, whereas Johnstone has had Jedinak, Hourihane, and Lansbury in the midfield. Which one of those midfielders do you want in your XI? 

That graph that showed Baker-Chester and Jedinak playing together has only resulted in 1 loss in 20 matches had Johnstone in net for 17 of the 20 matches.

So your points that Cissokho played in less than half the games is technically wrong, but I am also not including the 4 times Cissokho was subbed in.

Also saying Gollini played with Baker, Chester, and Jedinak in the majority of matches is so far off the truth. With a back 4, Gollini only played with those three 3 times. If you include the 3 at the back experiment, then we are at 5 out of 20 matches. 

This isn't me taking any shots at you. I think a lot of people have a negative opinion of Gollini for his silly comments, and the few errors he made, but if you look at the personnel Gollini was playing with, you'd realize he did not have it easy. Plus as you mentioned, Bruce is a much more organized and defensive manager than RDM who Gollini played the majority of his matches under. 

 

[Villan_of_oz]

On 2017-5-8 at 18:44, Mjvilla said:

We should get ANY keeper for that kind of money! 

Every keeper really.....

[Grasshopper]

Has to go back to ManUre.

He is shit.

Pickford is better than SJ. So are both Stoke keepers, maybe one of them wants 1st team football.

SJ is not good enough for a Championship title contenders team.

[Spoony]

I think everyone is being harsh on him, however I would say that there isn't really an excuse for having a poor keeper when you're as rich as we are. Buying a top drawer goalkeeper shouldn't really be too difficult.