AntrimBlack Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Richard said: No I am suggesting that promotion from this league is not the be all and end all, and certainly not AS important as people are making it out Yes it is. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: A long term approach could see us languishing in the Championship for years. maybe but if we hire Bruce we be at most bouncing between both leagues which is worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Phumfeinz Posted October 12, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2016 This wanting to languish in the championship for who knows how many years in order to build a young team is bizarre and quite frankly ridiculous. There's no guarantee that we're going to stumble upon the next class of '92 and fantastic young manager to go along with it and we'd run the risk that we end up stuck in the Championship for longer than is necessary. The longer we're out of the top flight, the harder it's going to be to ultimately re-establish ourselves as a force to be reckoned with. Promotion first, then we turn our attention to building a long-term team and strategy. I'm not saying that Bruce is going to guarantee promotion, but he's a damn good candidate for it. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Bouncing between both leagues is not worse than languishing in the Championship for years. Especially financially. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, Zatman said: maybe but if we hire Bruce we be at most bouncing between both leagues which is worse Can't possibly know that and the evidence suggests otherwise anyway - he's had more promotions to the Premier League than relegations from it. Further, he's never worked at a club with sufficient financial backing to achieve more in the Premier League than mid-table (which he has achieved more often than not). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Completely flawed logic. A therefore B does not imply not A therefore not B. Not really. You see a lot of people are saying promotions, promotions and by the way 4 promotions and dont forget he has experience of promotions in an attempt to justify the appointment of Bruce. I was merely using an example to show it is possible to have a good manager who has not been promoted from this league and that on that basis it is not the be all and end all. Now you could quite easily accuse me of using an extreme example and I may very well agree with you on that score. But I would add that in debates of this nature it is sometimes beneficial to use the extreme example especially when people's opinions are not generally formed on the basis of the point being made but more the person making it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigy1874 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, Richard said: Brian the argument seems to be he is perfect as he has been promoted four times. I'm merely pointing out that is false narrative. Aww not that bullshit term again! I though that gone along with the old regime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I just hope we beat wolves - thats how short term Im thinking ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just announce it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 Thank god we are not Derby, Mcclaren for real?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: Can't possibly know that and the evidence suggests otherwise anyway - he's had more promotions to the Premier League than relegations from it. Further, he's never worked at a club with sufficient financial backing to achieve more in the Premier League than mid-table (which he has achieved more often than not). his last club he got promoted twice and relegated once, same with Blues and he left both clubs soon after 2nd promotion though Blues went down that season and we shall see what will happen with Hull who are now in freefall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 12, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Richard said: Not really. You see a lot of people are saying promotions, promotions and by the way 4 promotions and dont forget he has experience of promotions in an attempt to justify the appointment of Bruce. I was merely using an example to show it is possible to have a good manager who has not been promoted from this league and that on that basis it is not the be all and end all. Now you could quite easily accuse me of using an extreme example and I may very well agree with you on that score. But I would add that in debates of this nature it is sometimes beneficial to use the extreme example especially when people's opinions are not generally formed on the basis of the point being made but more the person making it. It's really quite easy to want the perfect manager and accept nothing less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, Richard said: No I am suggesting that promotion from this league is not the be all and end all, and certainly not AS important as people are making it out I think you are in a very small minority with that first line. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say there? Would you be happy staying in the championship with a manager you like, rather than get promoted with a manger you feel is limited? in order to start heading back to 'where we belong', then surely promotion is the very definition of 'the be all and all'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Craigy1874 said: Aww not that bullshit term again! I though that gone along with the old regime Ok here's one, I am not romantically nourished by the appointment of Bruce. Better? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Richard said: Not really. You see a lot of people are saying promotions, promotions and by the way 4 promotions and dont forget he has experience of promotions in an attempt to justify the appointment of Bruce. I was merely using an example to show it is possible to have a good manager who has not been promoted from this league and that on that basis it is not the be all and end all. Now you could quite easily accuse me of using an extreme example and I may very well agree with you on that score. But I would add that in debates of this nature it is sometimes beneficial to use the extreme example especially when people's opinions are not generally formed on the basis of the point being made but more the person making it. It doesn't really feel like you read or understood my post.To follow from your point of emphasizing using extreme examples; Quote we should sign Suarez, he did really well scoring goals in the Premier League. Oh, so we shouldn't sign Messi, because he hasn't played in the Premier League? It's a nonsense argument. Edited October 12, 2016 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigy1874 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, Richard said: Ok here's one, I am not romantically nourished by the appointment of Bruce. Better? Nope, worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's a nonsense argument. Not wishing to get too technical, but it's not a nonsense argument. It makes perfect sense. You just think it's flawed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, wazzap24 said: I think you are in a very small minority with that first line. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say there? Would you be happy staying in the championship with a manager you like, rather than get promoted with a manger you feel is limited? in order to start heading back to 'where we belong', then surely promotion is the very definition of 'the be all and all'? I wish people would read in context what I have posted. Clearly in a debate about the relative merits of our potential new manager people are saying he has promotions. Further, even more clearly, I am saying that having promotions on your CV is not to me AS important in terms of ability. Edited October 12, 2016 by Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Baah im going to bed. Probably going to be 5 minutes after i leave. Enjoy the announcement ya'll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 12, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, Richard said: when people's opinions are not generally formed on the basis of the point being made but more the person making it. Please do not make this about you just because people are disagreeing with your opinion. At some point you are going to have to accept that people are disagreeing with the point being made, and not because of who is making it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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