Steve Bruce

[villianusa]

43 minutes ago, Dave J said:

The only reason we have Jack ( thankfully ) is because we now have owners who can't be bullied by the likes of Levvy - nothing to do with Bruce and I certainly agree with part of your post 

Did they tell you that?

[markavfc40]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats fair comment Mark.....and you are right Wigan are a decent side and will take points off other teams.

my point is this.....Why do these perceived lower teams get players who manage to be so effective.Just as a few observations.....The lad Robinson (3) what a bundle of energy he is and to think we are looking for a left back.....Their goal keeper i thought had presence and quite competent.....2 centre backs not as technically gifted as Chester, but aggressive and robust.

No doubt we did well in terms of securing the result, but we do have too many players at times who get so easily relieved of the ball.....they must sort this out.

Thought McGinn was an exception, reminded me of Cropley.

 

I was impressed with Wigan mate but in fairness we are judging their players on one game lets see how they do over the season. We are also judging our own players in some cases on one game or on their first start in a while.

I think we did ok last season. We need an upgrade on some players but we have maintained the basis of a very good side at this level. I actually think we are overly critical of them sometimes and likewise the manager.

We will bring in 3 or 4 loans to fill the gaps I am sure of that. I am also under no illusions we will still have flaws and the manager will still have weaknesses but I am confident we will again have more than enough to be well in the promotion mix. You'd have offered me that three weeks ago I'd have thought you were deluded but have bitten your hand off. Despite acknowledging we haven't been great so far and can certainly do better, as the manager himself has repeatedly said, overly focusing on any negatives at this stage isn't for me. Maybe I should stay out of this thread 

Edited August 12, 2018 by markavfc40

[Tommo_b]

54 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

It’s refreshing that the excuses keep changing. First it was he hasn’t had a preseason, now he hasn’t had the right sort of preseason. 

I’m not saying it’s been ideal, but there is always some sort of preemptive reason for Bruce not to succeed. And indeed what is deemed as success is a constantly moving target. Last summer even his most ardent of supporters generally added a caveat that he must hit the ground running and automatic promotion is the only acceptable achievement. Now people are suggesting that another playoff final would be a success. 

The first thing we should invest in is a bucket of 6” nails to stop the goalposts moving. 

Two wins out of two 100% win rate, hit the ground running so far.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Tommo_b

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I was impressed with Wigan mate but in fairness we are judging their players on one game lets see how they do over the season. We are also judging our own players in some cases on one game or on their first start in a while.

I think we did ok last season. We need an upgrade on some players but we have maintained the basis of a very good side at this level. I actually think we are overly critical of them sometimes and likewise the manager.

We will bring in 3 or 4 loans to fill the gaps I am sure of that. I am also under no illusions we will still have flaws and the manager will still have weaknesses but I am confident we will again have more than enough to be well in the promotion mix. You'd have offered me that three weeks ago I'd have thought you were deluded but have bitten your hand off. Despite acknowledging we haven't been great so far and can certainly do better, as the manager himself has repeatedly said, overly focusing on any negatives at this stage isn't for me. Maybe I should stay out of this thread 

I don't think it is focusing on the negatives in that respect its making observations, so improvements can be looked at.

Some of the things that are wrong should not be repeated, for months on end....but yes I respect the end of last season has created an enormous set back.

The start is great....and I am encouraged by SB making reference to big improvements need to be made.....It needs to happen, to launch a challenge.

I also think you are right in an earlier post in that too many players had iffy performances, yesterday.

In particular Kodjia and Adomah lack intensity at the moment and both need to find a way to negate the physical challenge....because they can't meet fire with fire.....They must focus on their superior skills to get themselves away from danger......currently they are being easily negated.

Edited August 12, 2018 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

Last minute winners = good

Steve Bruce football = bad

What a treat those who currently enjoy watching us have to come. It'll blow your mind when we start consistently passing and moving.

It's like it's been forgotten that we're in the Championship. This isn't the elite we're playing against. It's teams that we've got about 20x the budget of.

 

[DaveAV1]

48 minutes ago, weedman said:

Its almost as if circumstances change over time isn't it? Besides, how many managers need to be "making excuses" after two wins in 2 games? 

Besides, I'm stating facts, saying our off season wasn't ideal is massively downplaying events. Man Utds pre season wasn't ideal, ours was a total **** of bad news and uncertainty over everything, you don't think that'll affect the players and staff? 

All I was saying is that the start was always going to be tough after the summer, I said this before the season (with the caveat that I think the league will be tighter this year so we should be able to recover from a poor start) but despite that we're 2 from 2, 6 goals scored (including a Hutton goal) and we've got new owners with real money, I'd say things aren't going too badly right now are they? 

Results wise I think we’ve started great and the momentum of this plus the very positive signs form the new owners gives me great hope for a bright future. My fear, for the here and now, is that we haven’t looked convincing in more than a handful of games since Steve Bruce got here. Yes winning when you’re not playing well is always a positive, but at some point, regardless of style, you have to consistently play well, for a sufficiently large part of the season. We clearly haven’t done that so far in his tenure, otherwise we would have been promoted.

I think the reason for this is largely because SB isn’t completely convinced what his game plan is, and therefore neither are the players. We play well for parts of games, or half a game, but when the opposition do something that knocks us off our stride, we don’t seem to have sufficient belief in what we’re trying to do. We don’t have a default setting if you like. I don’t mean the players don’t trust, or listen to the manager, it’s just this small doubt in the back of their collective minds that effects us. Don’t get me wrong we’ve made great forward strides during Steve Bruce’s time here, I’m just not convinced he is able to do that extra 5% or so that makes the difference between success and failure. 

[Stephen_Evans]

Positive passing, movement and pressing as a group.  What a difference that would make.

[NoelVilla]

6 hours ago, eholm said:

Bielsa has done more in six weeks to ingrain a defined strategy and game plan into a team than you have done in 21 months. Just go please and give us a chance of making the most of the opportunity our new owners have given us. 

Didn't watch us yesterday but I watched most of the Leeds game. The difference between Bielsa and Bruce are mind-blowing.. 

[holteend1982]

6 minutes ago, NoelVilla said:

Didn't watch us yesterday but I watched most of the Leeds game. The difference between Bielsa and Bruce are mind-blowing.. 

let's see where Leeds are after the Christmas period. that intensity he plays them at cannot be kept up when you're playing Saturday's and Tuesday.

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, eholm said:

I have indeed listened to them and comments like ".....considering all the doom and gloom" etc, etc. 

Acknowledges the good stuff..... bet that didnt take long

And then goes away....cant wait till he does

We are a poor team and after 2 years in charge there is no excuse for it, end of.

Think that's just having a bit of a dig at the press to be frank. Steve has good reason to be irritated with the footballing press this summer.

[romavillan]

2 minutes ago, holteend1982 said:

let's see where Leeds are after the Christmas period. that intensity he plays them at cannot be kept up when you're playing Saturday's and Tuesday.

He's always done it, it's why Pep Guardiola has him down as one of the best coaches in the world, it's something that Guardiola has always tried to do as well. Klopp too. You'd think his training is geared to not breaking his squad into a mess by Christmas. Aside from the high press though, to a man, they look like they know *exactly* where to be with and without the ball, they look amazingly well drilled. After nearly two years loads of ours still look **** lost half the time.

For all the positives that Bruce has brung, and they are many, the same old problems are plain to see. Let's hope we don't pay the same price this year.

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, villianusa said:

Did they tell you that?

Why do you see it differently ?

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, villianusa said:

Did they tell you that?

If the only things ever posted on here, were direct quotes from senior members of staff we’d still be on page 1 of the Steve Bruce thread!

[Mark Albrighton]

2 hours ago, eholm said:

I have indeed listened to them and comments like ".....considering all the doom and gloom" etc, etc. 

His actual words were “With all the so called doom and gloom that's been around the place this summer....”

I mean, the club appeared to be staring into the abyss. That interview he gave while the squad were abroad, he acknowledged that it was a difficult time etc. So to say “so called doom and gloom” does give off a dismissive vibe regarding the problems the club were facing.

Having said that, I’ve come to accept that Bruce isn’t a particularly eloquent wordsmith and can be prone to contradictions, like a lot of other managers. I’m gonna try and avoid picking apart every word he says. I don’t care too much about what he says as long as the good results keep coming.

If the biggest problem we have with Bruce this season is his interviews, then we’ll have had a successful season.

[jacketspuds]

Although I wasn't sure about Henry I would love us to try and get Arteta if Bruce fails this season. My concern is that Bruce may get us up but his football will be disastrous in the Premier League.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, Dick said:

Just because I don't believe Bruce is the right man, it doesn't mean I think everything about him is negative. There is just more that I don't like than I do. I don't think it's unfair to point things out, and I try hard to be balanced by mentioning positives too. I'm also happy to be asked what I think those positives are, it is never an issue.

 

There are plenty of positives about Bruce, plenty. I'd say they even outweigh the negatives quite easily. He's introduced a real team spirit and togetherness to the team, the players really put their all for him and the shirt, he's given us a never say die attitude as well as being very resilient when we're ahead. Here's turned Villa Park into a fortress again, he's gotten Jack into the best form of his life etc etc.

The problem is the negatives, as few as they are, are very crucial. You have got to put all of those man/team management positives together with a tangible and effective strategy on the pitch. The lack of this is really holding us back from fulfilling our potential. We can stumble over the line because of the sheer quality of our players, but as last season showed, it can leave us just short. It doesn't even have to be pretty tiki taka as long as it's effective a lá Cardiff last season.

I don't want to have to focus on Bruce's negatives as I really like the bloke and he's got what a lot of even tactically astute managers seem to struggle with down. I desperately want him to succeed not least because it means we will succeed. But it's been almost 2 years now and I've seen enough evidence by now to show that he's not going to change in this respect. Unfortunately you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

[sne]

27 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Although I wasn't sure about Henry I would love us to try and get Arteta if Bruce fails this season. My concern is that Bruce may get us up but his football will be disastrous in the Premier League.

If he get's us up great.

No reason we can't replace him next summer even if we are promoted.

Horses for courses and all that.

[peterms]

3 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

However when it comes to Ross the fact Bruce is happy to write off 12 million in fees and a fat sum more on wages is just incredible. Yes Ross is a scum bag but however you feel about his attitude he is still a functioning player who has scored goals at every club he has played at and never been bombed out like this.

I sympathise with Bruce on this one.

Without knowing the details, I get the impression that McCormack is a good player who has been found difficult at some previous clubs.  That shouldn't mark him out as a troublemaker, but it might explain something if there seem to be off-field issues that we don't know about.  (I'm not sure that Gategate is the full story, at all, but if it was, Bruce had no option).

The manager has to decide if the player can be an asset in the current situation, in this squad, right now.  It's a complex decision, requiring some advanced understanding of group dynamics among other things.  The player's track record shouldn't be a big factor in that decision (often it is), nor should purchase price and salary (ditto).  The price is a sunk cost, and if it was too much (or about right but a very big number), that can't influence selection decisions.

I think it's this stuff, about making fine judgements about whether obviously talented players will add to or detract from the collective effort, that is one of the things that makes management harder than just selection and tactics.

I have many criticisms of Bruce, but this isn't one of them.

 

[tomav84]

52 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Although I wasn't sure about Henry I would love us to try and get Arteta if Bruce fails this season. My concern is that Bruce may get us up but his football will be disastrous in the Premier League.

if you werent sure about henry why out of interest would you "love" to get arteta? their management experience is identical

[Demitri_C]

7 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Did anyone see the Leeds performance against Derby ? Boy, that was some scintillating football.

It’s not like we haven’t done that before beating Bristol city 5-0

oh wait